1969 Camaro SS

Okay so today the owner comes back and ask me to roll up the windows in the door and quarter glass to see if they matched up better than before.. When the old hinges were worn out the driver and passengers side windows had to be rolled down just a tad to get the doors closed properly and then roll the glass back up.. Otherwise they hit..

So here is my question perhaps my situation I may need to correct but dont know how or what to do here..

1. I blasted, straightened and rebuilt the factory hinges.
2. Doors are hung and fit to quarters and I had already fit the fenders to the doors to make sure it all fit..
3. As you can see in the photo below the gap from the inner body to the glass looks insanely off!!!!!

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4. The passengers side is off but not as much look at photo..

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5. If you look at the drivers side photo ( the 1st one ) the door and rocker meet up flush at the bottom.. see photo below.. Pay no attention to the fender fit.. Its just setting there not secured

2011-02-13053944.jpg


6. Lastly the door could be tilted up in the rear and lowered in the front as long as the body lines would still be made to fit, BUT THEN THE DOOR WOULD TOUCH THE ROCKER!!! see photo

2011-02-13060756.jpg



So there lies my problem this morning as I sit here scratching my head.. I know there is a rubber that goes in there to fill a pretty good size void, but the drivers side appears to be too far off.. Here is the kicker.. The drivers door sets forward actually a little more than the passengers.. The passengers side door is slightly off at the rocker and does not meet flush, so you would think it would be the furthest out..

Im looking for advice here guys.. Is this the norm or have I got something completely off and just dont realize it

Thanks for any help in advance
 
You did not say if you had gutted the doors or not, and I usually do when doing one of these projects, so have to adjust everything. Since I normally work on Mustangs, and am not that familiar with the Camaro, as such, let me make a general observation. In most doors there are adjustments that can be made to move the glass in and out at the top, tilt forward and back at the top, and limit the up and down movement. It looks to me like you need to adjust the window, and not the door, but then what do I know.

Aaron
 
I didnt pull the door glass outta this one Aaron.. just locks, latch etcc.,. I pulled quarter glass though and it fits nicely once I re installed it..

Reckon I need to find out how to adjust this bad boy and go with it..

Thanks Ole Buddy
 
worst design ever. i worked on these cars when they were new to 10 years old. windows were always a pia. arron is right. all you can do is adjust them. but dont bother until the car is together. the 70's and 80's smog vettes were worse. damn window would roll up fine until you closed the door then stop 1/4 in from top. it's not something you did, its the nature of the beast.
 
BK, there should be enough adjustment in the glass to get it aligned. There are stops on the glass front and rear that limit the upward travel both front and rear, also you can cock the window to match the pillar and roof line by adjusting the regulator track. There's adjusted on the glass tracks at the bottom to change the glass in/out angle. There's a metal weatherstrip track that gets screwed in place on the pillar and roof and the weatherstrip installs in that-you will need both parts to adjust the glass. The quarter glass also has adjustments up/down/in/out. Bottom line is there is usually enough glass adjustment in both the door and quarter glass to get it dialed in good as long as you haven't modified the body beyond factory spec or it hasn't been wrecked. Plan on spending a fair amount of time for the glass alignment if this is your first time adjusting. If you were closer I'd stop over and give you a hand.

Have you seen any indicators that the car was wrecked? I bet it's ok if you aligned the panels ok but it won't hurt to look it over. Usual areas for damage is the torque box area near the drivers footwell where the subframe bolts on-are the bolt holes ovaled see any wrinkles? any wrinkles on the cowl near the fender attachment holes? On a front end hit the cowl rolls back at the top and pivots at the rocker, the roof goes up on the front corner and the pillar decreases in angle. Just take a good look for any damage indicators and you can also do some comparative measurements to the opposite side to verify if the door opening area is the same-usually within 1/8".

Are there any glass companies that have been around for awhile-an experienced glass guy could dial these in fairly fast-might be an option if you don't want to do it. Another thing to check out with the door alignment on these is there is often clearance problems where the trim panel meets the dash-seen this on a few 69's and it can be a pita come final assembly time.

I
 
Thanks for answering my question guys.. I truly appreciate it.. I glanced at the inner door panel yesterday and didnt see any slotting for any bolts to move, so I told the owner I would ask those who would most definitely know what the problem was and how to correct it..

I will tackle this myself Bob.. Im of the opinion I need to learn all aspects of doing a car. Im constantly learning and this will be a learning experience for sure..

Again thank you all for your help and support
 
Bondoking;4895 said:
Im of the opinion I need to learn all aspects of doing a car. Im constantly learning and this will be a learning experience for sure..
Click to expand...
That's the spirit! I'm the same way, I do everything I can myself, been working on cars since the age of 14, 30 years... I build my own engines, everything except for transmission overhauls. After working on this stuff long enough you get to a point where it's difficult trusting anyone else to do it. Dial in the window alignment on this one and the next one won't be difficult at all.
 
So I replace the front end body bushings for my customer.. All the body bushings have been replaced with year one bushing kit..

I had not buttoned up the front end, but was not concerned about it honestly.. So today front end body bushings were replaced and then I put the nose of the car together.. Header panel, front splash pan, brace between the two and hood latch assembly..

When I was finished bolting the front end together I walked around the sides of the car and noticed that now my fender to door gaps were insanely off.. Im talking I can stick a finger in them at the bottom and they are close to touching at the top of the door/fender... see photo below:

2011-02-18170743.jpg


Here is the top of the passengers side.. see pic below:

2011-02-18175107.jpg


Once again I will say.. I love Ford muscle cars, and strongly dislike these bowties.. Its not that I have Chevy.. Everytime I think Im getting ready to rock and roll on this car, its kicks me square in the Kahuna's!!!!

Here is my plan..

I thought I would break everything loose.... All inner fender apron bolts and fender bolts to see if I can adjust it out.. If not my second plan is to deal with the fat rubber bushings themselves..


As always any advice is welcome..
 
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The radiator support bushings look to be too thick, the rad support is to high. Some of these aftermarket bushing kits aren't correct in thickness, I have had to trim some for the proper height. Or you can shim the subframe down at the torquebox area bushings. I'm guessing that you installed the whole kit including the radiator support. Pull the rad support bushings out and let the front settle down to see where it needs to be. If you don't get the rad support height right there will be enough tension on the fenders to sometimes warp/buckle them. I've taken a few apart that were like this when you loosen up the fender bolts and the fender slams into the door. I like to set the sheetmetal to the height it needs to be and match the subframe so it's all relaxed and supported properly.
 
Okay Bob.. I will pull those rad support bushings out.. Yes the whole entire kit has been used.. The rad bushings are what threw it all off.. Everything was fine before hand.. They are extremely thick in comparison to the dry rotted 42 yr old rubbers of course..Aaron called yesterday afternoon and I ask him about the situation while i had him on the phone.. He was saying the same thing about the bushings being far to thick..

Once I get the sheetmetal set I am going to shim the fenders and lock them down.. Then I will begin cutting the rubber until I find a thickness that works.. B time consuming installing them and then removing them to trim, but I guess that is the only option other than shim the subframe..

Which would you do Bob?
 
The only thing you have to watch with the front bushings is make sure not to trim them so much that it affects the bumper alignment- the body will come down as an assembly and won't affect the sheetmetal alignment but the bumper attaches to the frame so that needs to be within it's adjustment range. Add a 1/8" washer to the center bushings and I bet it will make all the difference. Still might want to testfit the bumper just to makes sure there won't be any problems on final assembly-4 bracket bolts and two outer bolts. I've seen these cars come from the factory with washers on the center bushings-probably to make up for manufacturing variances. As a test you culd support the body at the front of the rockers and loosen the center bushing bolts some to see if the front comes down easily-I bet 1/8" will do it.
 
Bob I think the middle needs more like you have suggested.. I took out the front bushings and had to lower the rad support until it was an 1/8" from touching the frame, so basically sneeze and its touching.. In that position it all lines up again.. Now i understand the bushings compress a great deal, but still I think it shouldnt be that bad..

Going to look at everything you have suggested, bumper fit, bushing thickness and try to adjust both the bushing thickness as well as adding in some spacers underneath the body..

Thanks a million Bob.. Made this much less of a headache for me.. I know it is allot of questions....

It will be good for someone who rebuilds one of these cars for themselves at home
 
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BK,
I had similar issues with the Buick when I changed out the bushings. I tried to make sure I had even squish on each of the bushings and it worked out fairly well. The ones inside the body under the fire wall were the most troublesome for me.
 
Shimming the bushing under the cowl will make the stubframe go down in front, shimming the rearmost bushing under the floor will make the stubframe go up in front.

You need down, so shim the one under the cowl.
 
Ahh I see what your saying Crash,. or at least I think I do.. I went to my local Lowes store and picked up 8 washers same thickness as the ones that come in the kit.. I know I dont need 8, but I wanted enough.. I also put that center bushing back in place as i didnt trust my jack to stay up all night..

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.. Great learning experience for me..

67 Fast back coming next.. Im looking forward to old familiar :)
 
Mathew, once you shim those center bushings it will all come into alignment. Check out the alignment holes like I suggested in the PM but if your subframe connectors are welded on there isn't going to be much you can do if they attached them with the subrame out of alignment-Hopefully they are bolt on connectors. What color is that car going to be?
 
Car is black pro spray single stage with euro clear over it. Got to be right for sure
 
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