zero rust

T

TX79Z28

I have read the information regarding not spraying SPI epoxy over rust converters or encapsulators. I ask this question, NOT to argue, but to learn. My plan was to spray the interior and exterior of the floor boards with Zero Rust, which I believed was a sealer....not a converter. I was planning on spraying SPI epoxy over it, and then top coat with with Eastwood's 2K ceramic underhood black paint. A member of my camaro forum did exactly this with SPI primer, but he let the zero rust sit for over 60 days before applying the epoxy, and he had no problems at all.

Is zero rust a converter or encapsulator? , and in fact, not a sealer-type coating? FYI, I would NOT be applying zero rust over any rust, it would all be completely clean and clear bare metal, or some of the original painted surface under the body, which is still in great shape. So, I am not trying to hide rust, or cover it up.

I am going with SPI epoxy over the rest of the car, but I would like to know and understand WHY I should not spray it over properly cured zero rust? What is the reason, other than...."you shouldn't"?
 
Not trying to sound argumentative, but I have heard this before, and I don't doubt its sound advice. But for me to learn, I need to understand the reasons. If Zero Rust is a sealer and not a rust converter, I would like to understand why it would be a bad idea (compatibility-wise, not extra steps) to spray SPI epoxy over Zero Rust.

Again, not arguing, just asking.
 
I cannot telll you anything about compatability between the two products. I can simply tell you why I would not do it to anything of mine or belonging to one of my customers.

1 Why use it and waste the money? If the metal is in good condition, then you should not need it. That's just money down the drain. If the metal is prepared properly for that stuff to adhere, the epoxy should stick even better.

2 what is gained by it over just epoxy? Nothing is going to actually provide as durable a seal as the epoxy. The SPI epoxy stays flexible, keeping the seal intact when the applied surface flexes. Other rust treatment/sealer products I know about usually will become extremely hard when fully cured. What then happens is that the product breaks loose from the surface, becoming a shell around the metal. That product then gets small cracks in it, allowing air and moisture to get to the metal, actually promoting rust. That rust is "encapsulated" under the "sealer" until it is so bad that the product then comes off.

I personally don't need anymore reasons than that.

Aaron
 
think of spi epoxy as zero rust.
2 what is gained by it over just epoxy? Nothing is going to actually provide as durable a seal as the epoxy. The SPI epoxy stays flexible, keeping the seal intact when the applied surface flexes. Other rust treatment/sealer products I know about usually will become extremely hard when fully cured. What then happens is that the product breaks loose from the surface, becoming a shell around the metal. That product then gets small cracks in it, allowing air and moisture to get to the metal, actually promoting rust. That rust is "encapsulated" under the "sealer" until it is so bad that the product then comes off.
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^ i have pics of using a zero rust type product and it all lifted under the paint and looks like patches of poison oak on skin. car must be stripped and painted properly. it did exactly what adkart described 2 months later in the sun...
 
Well, I think what I was having a tough time with, was losing my money on the Zero Rust, it left just enough money in the project budget to buy the SPI epoxy, and I REALLY hated to throw away the Zero Rust. However, I think I found a great use for it. I have another project (60 Chrysler Imperial) that will need some body panels, but I will not know exactly what I need until I strip it to bare metal. I have to do that now, because Imperial parts are hard to find, so I need to start looking now. I cannot actually "start" on that until I finish the camaro. So, since my initial sanding down is more of a "peek-a-boo" to see how bad the body panels are, I will use the Zero Rust to give it a protective coating until I can come back a year or so down the road and start the actual restoration. The Imperial is in my storage room, so Zero Rust will actually be better since I don't have to mix it, just load my compressor (there is A/C power in the storage room) and spray it to keep it from getting worse. Then when I am REALLY ready to start, I will strip it down (I know it seems like double work, but I CANNOT afford to buy epoxy for both cars at the same time, and the zero rust is paid for) and shoot it with epoxy.
 
starting out we all make mistakes, its part of learning. do panels have to be coated for storage? is your storage outside or in a humid area because that seems like an aweful of of extra work to strip it off again. im interested in other opinions from the pros as well...
 
Well, it's being stored indoors, problem its going to be 12-24 months before I get to it. I would imagine that it would be OK without any coating. Not going to strip it down to the point that the bare metal is ready for epoxy or anything, more of a "look and see" exploration to estimate the actual rust and/or filler on the body. It's going to be bare enough that, in my mind, it justifies the extra work. Truth be told, it's more about my pride, and not wanting to just "waste" the zero rust (bought a gallon and three rattle cans!). So, it's not so much beause it needs it, but probably my cheap "frugal" self needs that boost of "well, at least we used it for something!" Not to mention that it will look better in red oxide than in that nasty off white "paint" mixed with surface rust that it's sporting now!
 
i know the pride or "mistake" feeling, i have a couple of gallons of stuff that i didnt need, that i bought un-informed or mis-lead. it would just suck to be two years down the line, feelings about zero rust purchase long gone saying to yourself why the hell did i spray this zero rust, its a pita to take off!
 
TX79Z28;6051 said:
Well, I think what I was having a tough time with, was losing my money on the Zero Rust, it left just enough money in the project budget to buy the SPI epoxy, and I REALLY hated to throw away the Zero Rust. However, I think I found a great use for it. I have another project (60 Chrysler Imperial) that will need some body panels, but I will not know exactly what I need until I strip it to bare metal. I have to do that now, because Imperial parts are hard to find, so I need to start looking now. I cannot actually "start" on that until I finish the camaro. So, since my initial sanding down is more of a "peek-a-boo" to see how bad the body panels are, I will use the Zero Rust to give it a protective coating until I can come back a year or so down the road and start the actual restoration. The Imperial is in my storage room, so Zero Rust will actually be better since I don't have to mix it, just load my compressor (there is A/C power in the storage room) and spray it to keep it from getting worse. Then when I am REALLY ready to start, I will strip it down (I know it seems like double work, but I CANNOT afford to buy epoxy for both cars at the same time, and the zero rust is paid for) and shoot it with epoxy.
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All's not lost = Ebay or Craigslist it
 
I know what you mean, I just can't take NOT using it! But I agree it will be a PITA to take it off, although I will only apply a thin coat. Its just a quirk I have, can't throw it away!
 
TX, I have two unopened gallons of black lacquer if you're interested, along with a trial pack of PeeOnRust-15. When I make these mistakes, I try to find someone to donate my mistake to. I also have two brand new BFG 215/50-13 tires mounted on widened Fiat X1/9 rims -- they have never touched a public road and they are only 19 years old.

Donate the stuff to someone with a rusty tool shed -- it'll keep the rain out when the metal disintegrates.
 
I wouldnt use any product on a automobile that has the word rust in any part of its name. All that stuff is more or less the same, snake oil for the unknowing.
 
i have a gallon of evercoat feather fill g2 ill probably never use... jobber talked me into it when i should have just bought epoxy...
 
TX79Z28;6057 said:
I know what you mean, I just can't take NOT using it! But I agree it will be a PITA to take it off, although I will only apply a thin coat. Its just a quirk I have, can't throw it away!
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Did you See where I get over a 100 calls a year with paint problems related to these kinds of products?

It will be the best $100 you ever threw away, the cost to repair will be much more.
 
Barryk;6093 said:
Did you See where I get over a 100 calls a year with paint problems related to these kinds of products?

It will be the best $100 you ever threw away, the cost to repair will be much more.
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Hi Barry,

No, I agree, not going to use it on the Camaro. What I was talking about was not wanting to just throw it away. So, since I have the 60 imperial that I won't touch for a couple of years but I have to strip some of the body panels to see what I need to start looking for (see which ones are beyond fixing) I wanted to shoot the Zero Rust on THAT car as a preservative (the car project budget won't allow buying materials for both cars right now). And when I am ready to start the Imperial, I will strip all the Zero rust off and shoot that bare metal with SPI epoxy, just like the current project. I acknowledge it's double work, but what I was saying is that I would rather use it for something than throw it away, but I am definitely NOT using it under epoxy.

I guess I just felt stupid about falling for the hype of Zero Rust, but as other members have said, it happens when you start in this hobby. I guess I would have felt REALLY stupid if I HAD sprayed the Zero Rust AND covered it with epoxy, and THEN read all this !
 
I would try stripping some of that stuff before I sprayed a whole car with the plan to eventually take it back off. Better yet, just protect it with epoxy. 50 dollars worth of epoxt would probably cover the car. If you'll strip a car for 50 dollars, I have some work for you!
 
strum456;6112 said:
I would try stripping some of that stuff before I sprayed a whole car with the plan to eventually take it back off. Better yet, just protect it with epoxy. 50 dollars worth of epoxt would probably cover the car. If you'll strip a car for 50 dollars, I have some work for you!
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I know it doesn't make sense from a "business" point of view, I will try to sell it on Craigs list, but if that doesnt pan out, I would rather strip the areas I sanded down (not doing the whole car) and sprayed with the zero rust while I am taking the entire car to metal. At least I would feel it served SOME kind of purpose! I know what you mean though, makes perfect sense...if I sell it for 1/3 of what I paid, I will be happy!
 
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