Restoration and custom work

Most of my work is regional. I live in a small town with zero work. It has taken years to get where I want to be. Done a couple jobs across the country years ago but they didn't turn out that great. You have to watch out when a collector looks beyond their state looking for work. Sometimes they've done screwed everybody and are branching out where they are less known.

Restorations are expensive. No way around it. I've had chrome bills for a single job larger than a new pickup. Depending on the vehicle I can usually weed someone out with one sentence. If your not interested in spending at least 100k then I can't help you. I only make a fraction of that number on a job. Everybody has their hands out at a certain level. And if it isn't rebuilt or reconditioned it will be once the car is assembled and then your backtracking and losing money. Restoration friends of mine did a Riddler car that was runner up some years ago and at that level it goes from 100k to 1,000,000 and up. Unbelievable amount of money into those cars.

Tough way to make a living in my opinion. I work alone so I really limit the amount of money to be made. I can only turn so many hours a day. My personality doesn't allow for help. I'll admit it and I lose work over my backlog time. But... I get up every morning and I'm happy to get into the shop and work. I believe the term for me in a few years will probably be "Crumudgeon" and I'm good with it.
 
beat you to it .:) i closed my shop in 92 and never looked back . i have been a one man show ever since. i only take what interest me plus my customer base goes back 30 years. they keep me pretty busy. the folks who bought my 37 coupe also bought my 54 ford truck. it works out well. i stay busy and their stuff gets took care of. treat your customers right but stand firm on your rates and give a full 8 for a full days pay .
 
Raymond_B said:
I hope you guys don't see me as being critical, I was just trying to give the customer's point of view. Or at least mine if I am ever a customer :) It's a crappy world out there filled with hacks and straight up dishonest people. If I spent years saving to have major work done I would be nervous without some sort of structure/plan/schedule that's all. Nothing personal.
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The problem with restorations work is that you almost never know what is going to be required until you dig in. Like Shine said, he want's them stripped before he quotes them. Look at some of the mustangs Rusty gets into.
The other issue is that most customers change their minds on certain things as the restoration progresses. I have had them tell me they don't want the chrome redone only to have them change their mind when the see the new paint job and how tacky the old chrome looks. Same with interiors, they may look great against the back drop of 30 year old paint but not so much in a car that looks better than new in every other way.
Just replacing window, door and trunk lid seals can run into the hundreds of dollars. Defective gauges in the dash are another huge expense and there are almost always electrical system gremlins that have to be hunted down and fixed.
This is why customers that require quotes are often shocked at how much. If you have to cover all the variables in your quote it best to figure replacing everything. Of course this is my limited experience speaking. I have done only done 5 complete restorations and a few repaints.
 
Bob Hollinshead said:
Chad.S;n79263 said:
I like the spreadsheet method, It would take me some time to remember how to use one but they weren't to bad from what I remember.

And we tried to count by the sheet but I found with three guys sanding that became a hassle and we would loose track of things, so now we use full items and do a return when done, pretty much the same thing just backwards.. Customers that take the refund always like it when they get their final bill. lol.. We have one customer that is doing possibly four vehicles so for him it will just roll over and the start of his next project could potentially be cheaper, especially if he has left over sand paper, primers and clear.
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Chad, if you don't mind me asking... how much if any markup do you charge on materials? With the cost of everything involved for a complete resto it's amazing what just the cost adds up to LOL.
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Yes/No. I also have the store so I buy from myself basically. I don't mark it up more than what it would be to a shop.

Parts are another story. I don't know whow to handle parts, there seems to be no room for markup but I typically have a lot of time into research, it's hard to bill a customer for research when we are really looking for something specific to get a job done. Plus it's not fair because the research on the first car is much more extensive than the second with a similar list of products. I just feel it's hard to bill for lack of knowledge for a specific model. This is where specializing in one model would be beneficial.
 
shine said:
beat you to it .:) i closed my shop in 92 and never looked back . i have been a one man show ever since. i only take what interest me plus my customer base goes back 30 years. they keep me pretty busy. the folks who bought my 37 coupe also bought my 54 ford truck. it works out well. i stay busy and their stuff gets took care of. treat your customers right but stand firm on your rates and give a full 8 for a full days pay .
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Pretty much all that matters is that it works for you and the customer.. I can see issues with both methods so it's just a matter of finding customers that line up to what you are doing.

It seems the stuff we work on snowballs so fast that I would get burned with a estimate.. It's worse with the custom stuff because it seems it snowballs very fast.
 
The problem with restoration work is that you almost never know what is going to be required until you dig in. Like Shine said, he want's them stripped before he quotes them. Look at some of the mustangs Rusty gets into.
The other issue is that most customers change their minds on certain things as the restoration progresses. I have had them tell me they don't want the chrome redone only to have them change their mind when the see the new paint job and how tacky the old chrome looks. Same with interiors, they may look great against the back drop of 30 year old paint but not so much in a car that looks better than new in every other way.
Just replacing window, door and trunk lid seals can run into the hundreds of dollars. Defective gauges in the dash are another huge expense and there are almost always electrical system gremlins that have to be hunted down and fixed.
This is why customers that require quotes are often shocked at how much. If you have to cover all the variables in your quote it best to figure replacing everything. Of course this is my limited experience speaking. I have done only done 5 complete restorations and a few repaints.
 
i estimate labor only. i do not get involved in parts . i am not going to spend hours and hours setting on the phone arguing with idiots on parts . on a complete restoration that can run inot a lot of time .i let the customer handle that.
 
Raymond_B said:
I hope you guys don't see me as being critical, I was just trying to give the customer's point of view. Or at least mine if I am ever a customer :) It's a crappy world out there filled with hacks and straight up dishonest people. If I spent years saving to have major work done I would be nervous without some sort of structure/plan/schedule that's all. Nothing personal.
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Absolutely I 100% get that, I didn't mean that as a customer I would want a 100% ironclad guarantee. I think it would be awesome if I rolled my car in and the shop said 1st we sandblast it, then we go from there. And just like home construction any deviations from the original plan must be agreed upon by both parties. Totally get that too :) Again if **the process** is set out 1st then it's hard to have surprises. I also understand that this type of work stuff aint cheap. So I'd rather have a shop tell me to walk if my budget and what I want done to the car don't line up. But that is a two way street, a customer might walk if they feel the agreement is too open ended.
 
anotheridiot said:
yes, its the exposure that changes the view.

Dont really know how these comments are tracking along, but when Chad said he cant estimate. can you just estimate time frame, then know what you need to pay? Average gas, electric costs, rent, employees pay over that time period will give you a real world number if you know they will be on the car for a month or two you at least have the go broke numbers.
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The problem is most of my projects are huge, 1-2 months?? Maybe 1-2 years. Try to budget what will happen over the course of a few years?? I can't seem to nail that one down.

Take a look at this picture for instance. And think about all the after market parts that had to get pieced together, a variation in one panel could mean the difference of one extra days work alone. Then add them all together? It makes my head spin just trying to think about it.



Hey the link worked, now maybe I can work on my how to section.. lol
 
shine said:
i estimate labor only. i do not get involved in parts . i am not going to spend hours and hours setting on the phone arguing with idiots on parts . on a complete restoration that can run inot a lot of time .i let the customer handle that.
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I tried that one a few times, ended up waiting on parts for to long of a time. For instance, I had one customer that wanted a exhaust put on his car, new stainless. etc etc. He asked if putting a new exhaust on meant that he had to install a new motor to match up to the exhaust.. Yes, I'm being serious. and no, I do not want that guy ordering the parts.. lmao..
I found it less stressful to order the parts that I want to install vs. what the customers would bring me. However, you are 100% correct, dealing with parts suppliers can be a royal PIA.

In all honesty I do agree with a lot of the way you look at things and it makes some sense. I just can't pinpoint things enough to not loose my A$$.
 
I also don't think you get into the custom side as I do shine. That is also a whole different animal it seems.
 
Chad How do you like the "Dr Jig" you posted a pic of? I've been thinking of getting one myself. What is that you are working on in that pic? I'm guessing a 56 Chevy???? Is that all you had to start with and using repro for the rest? If so you have my sympathies. :)
 
metal work can get out of control. most all of it i can estimate but when you get into top chops and such it is just an estimate.
 
Chris_Hamilton;n79413 said:
Chad How do you like the "Dr Jig" you posted a pic of? I've been thinking of getting one myself. What is that you are working on in that pic? I'm guessing a 56 Chevy???? Is that all you had to start with and using repro for the rest? If so you have my sympathies. :)
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Yes, that's basically what we started with.. It's a 57' convertible. It's been a fun one.. lol.

I love the DR Jig for what it is. By that I mean it's great for what we did here, however, I just found out that I need another one that could be longer. Reason being is that I'm back halfing a extended cab truck and I had to put it on my home made chassis table because the DR. JIg wasn't long enough.

So just match it up to what you are doing, if it's long enough and you are just doing re-bodies like this you will be fine, if you need to have the front clip on and build suspension off of it, have them build you a longer one. They said they can the only issue is that any longer puts it into a different price code for shipping.
 
anotheridiot said:
yes, its the exposure that changes the view.

Dont really know how these comments are tracking along, but when Chad said he cant estimate. can you just estimate time frame, then know what you need to pay? Average gas, electric costs, rent, employees pay over that time period will give you a real world number if you know they will be on the car for a month or two you at least have the go broke numbers.
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Yes, that is tough. I dont even know what it is lol. I guess the bottom line is looking at prices of like range of year and model of the car is and figure its gonna cost at least that much to get the car into that condition, or if you bought a more workable piece, if you could find one that is, how much more would it cost to start with that instead of what you have.
 
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