Restoration and custom work

It's a hobby for me, but it's good to know that I'm doing it similar to the pros here. I keep a spread sheet to log labor and materials. I turn over all the receipts in a binder at the end. I bill weekly though and expect to be paid weekly, I don't want to be left hanging if something should happen where they can't pay. I send them an email every week with the running spreadsheet updated for that week. I also turn over their supplies at the end if they want them. Anything they don't want I roll over to the next guy so it kind of evens out in the long run. I take a lot of pictures too and post them in an online album so they can see what's going on and where their money is going. I have the luxury of only taking on one at a time though so I'm not sure how scale able this would be if I took on more - but I don't plan to so it works very well for me.
 
Its tough to figure rates until you hammer out your expenses and time when you are starting. Right now you fully understand, it is most likely not costing you more to do things than a shop would charge. You are also gaining experience with restorations and remembering what took so long to weld that floor in the last car and doing it differently this time. I mean you get so tied up in budgeting how many grinding discs you can use on a job and you are probably using them longer than you would have to get the job done quicker if you changed it. Those Gas Monkey shows are helping keep the interest up with what we love to do, but showing a 15K profit on a car is not helping set prices for finished work.

Theres a driver that loves the camaro we finished, I said, 6-9 months and 30K we can build you one like it. I think thats the ultimate place to get to. So we did the Jeep with the metalflake paint job, the 67 camaro now the 36 chevy coupe is on the rack and rotiseree. Should give an example of the three big customer bases of rod, muscle and off road.
 
Chris, just give it some extra thought. That's all I'm saying. My wife did call me one day excited that she has seen the career path for a face tat guy. He was spinning the 5dollar pizza sign at Little Sleazers. :)

Shine is right but good luck talking someone into paying you if the quote is to much.

I do time and material. Really the only way to cover your butt. Alot of people want a rough idea though and I don't blame them. I do happen to be working on an estimate paint job at the moment. The estimate was for good metal and I'm covered for any extras or rot. Very rarely do I do this.
 
over the years people have been burned so bad on open end jobs that it is an instant turnoff for many. i'm lucky that i have done the same thing for so many years i can pretty much cover myself on an estimate. but i never give one until i have blasted it clean. i do not estimate parts on any job.
 
For sure those tv shows don't help, people that want cars built and don't have any experience, and see these shows don't have a clue of the work involved. I personally don't watch those shows, but it happened that I've seen a few episodes, and there are clearly many steps of a build that aren't showed.
 
Those shows skew reality for a lot of people. The amount of money every farm out shop makes (motor, tranny, paint, interior, tires wheels, etc.) must be staggering because they drop everything and work 24 hours a day if necessary to meet time schedule.
 
I will say from the other side those shows tend make it look like every customer that walks in has unlimited money. I like to do a lot of stuff myself, that's what brought me here. However I do know that nothing replaces the skill and experience you guys have. If I somehow acquired a rare/collectible/dream vehicle and it needed work I would look for one of you guys. However no estimate of cost or budget is tough, that takes a huge amount of trust. And as awesome as everyone here seems as a customer I'd struggle with handing over a car and saying do what it takes. I also think you (the business) need to know my limits. It would be unfair to give the impression that money is no object if I only have 10k to spend. I would hope I could, within reason, work out a rough plan with the shop. I could lay out how much I have and what I want. Then both of us could set realistic expectations.
 
Arrowhead said:
It's a hobby for me, but it's good to know that I'm doing it similar to the pros here. I keep a spread sheet to log labor and materials. I turn over all the receipts in a binder at the end. I bill weekly though and expect to be paid weekly, I don't want to be left hanging if something should happen where they can't pay. I send them an email every week with the running spreadsheet updated for that week. I also turn over their supplies at the end if they want them. Anything they don't want I roll over to the next guy so it kind of evens out in the long run. I take a lot of pictures too and post them in an online album so they can see what's going on and where their money is going. I have the luxury of only taking on one at a time though so I'm not sure how scale able this would be if I took on more - but I don't plan to so it works very well for me.
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I like the roll-over method. I still use odds and ends from my inventory as well, but overall I feel you need to be paid for your supplies separately.
 
shine said:
once i have a car in metal i can walk around it and estimate the job start to finish.
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So you are stating that you could quote a job such as the 57' we are doing right now when all we started with was a firewall? Just curious, because there is no way I could quote something that extensive.. And it seems like each car seems different, for instance, one car may have better parts quality supply than the next. It can take a lot more time to make one part fit vs the next. With paying employees, there is no way I can eat those differences, and it seems I can't guess my time frame well enough to be happy to give a full price quote.. I tip my hat if you can nail a quote down that accurately with all of the variations in a project.
 
Raymond_B said:
I will say from the other side those shows tend make it look like every customer that walks in has unlimited money. I like to do a lot of stuff myself, that's what brought me here. However I do know that nothing replaces the skill and experience you guys have. If I somehow acquired a rare/collectible/dream vehicle and it needed work I would look for one of you guys. However no estimate of cost or budget is tough, that takes a huge amount of trust. And as awesome as everyone here seems as a customer I'd struggle with handing over a car and saying do what it takes. I also think you (the business) need to know my limits. It would be unfair to give the impression that money is no object if I only have 10k to spend. I would hope I could, within reason, work out a rough plan with the shop. I could lay out how much I have and what I want. Then both of us could set realistic expectations.
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One thing that I also say that is a benefit to doing the project by time and materials is that any time the owner is unhappy he can simply pick up the vehicle and carry on in his own time, with a quote who is to say what percentage of the job is done, and whos to say when to pay and how much.
This all seems like a messy way to do a project and a easy way to get burned in business.

That being said if a customer brought in a car and said they had a 10k budget and I thought it was a 50k job I would let them know that it's not worth even starting.. I have had to do this on a few projects now, if that is the situation there is no reason to even go forward.

Recently I was told by someone that they had a 10k budget after they dropped the vehicle off, I had to politely let them know that it was a good start but that's about it, so then they have to decide if it's worth continuing or not.. I get they have a budget but that budget has no dictation over the amount of work, time and money that job will cost to finish.

I completely understand the fact that some customers can't afford to do a full project and have only so much money to work with but if that doesn't match up at all to what work has to be done it's irrelevant. We try to make things meet up when somebody has a budget but that always can't be done.
 
Chad.S;n79263 said:
I like the spreadsheet method, It would take me some time to remember how to use one but they weren't to bad from what I remember.

And we tried to count by the sheet but I found with three guys sanding that became a hassle and we would loose track of things, so now we use full items and do a return when done, pretty much the same thing just backwards.. Customers that take the refund always like it when they get their final bill. lol.. We have one customer that is doing possibly four vehicles so for him it will just roll over and the start of his next project could potentially be cheaper, especially if he has left over sand paper, primers and clear.
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Chad, if you don't mind me asking... how much if any markup do you charge on materials? With the cost of everything involved for a complete resto it's amazing what just the cost adds up to LOL.
 
Chad, getting a good ground on a customer budget is the right way. Most of my customers just want car done but when a new customer comes in we surely communicated that the project is doable. Like you said, theres no sense even getting the car if your not on the same page. A lot of shady shops would lure them in and use up the 10k budget and the owner would end up with a project that they despise.

I know a local guy that had an unlimited budget(within reason) to make a early Mustang really nice. He didn't want to wait for a 2year back log and took somewhere else. It costed way more than I ever could have honestly charged him and I believe he is sueing the shop because the work was terrible. It took longer also in the end than waiting the 2 years for me. I just smiled, not that he was screwed but he knew my work and decided another route.

I don't markup my materials. I should but I don't. For me less paperwork offsets the percentage lost. If I was a large shop with several jobs I surely would. Customer gets a copy of the receipt for everything purchased.
 
Brad is most of your business local/regional, or do you get customers nationwide? How long did it take for you to attract good customers as opposed to the "I want it perfect and for as little as possible" type of guy.?
 
Chris, I think one good car with the right exposure can change your whole world.
 
Brad J. said:
Chad, getting a good ground on a customer budget is the right way. Most of my customers just want car done but when a new customer comes in we surely communicated that the project is doable. Like you said, theres no sense even getting the car if your not on the same page. A lot of shady shops would lure them in and use up the 10k budget and the owner would end up with a project that they despise.

I know a local guy that had an unlimited budget(within reason) to make a early Mustang really nice. He didn't want to wait for a 2year back log and took somewhere else. It costed way more than I ever could have honestly charged him and I believe he is sueing the shop because the work was terrible. It took longer also in the end than waiting the 2 years for me. I just smiled, not that he was screwed but he knew my work and decided another route.

I don't markup my materials. I should but I don't. For me less paperwork offsets the percentage lost. If I was a large shop with several jobs I surely would. Customer gets a copy of the receipt for everything purchased.
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I do not mark up my materials or parts either. In fact, I give the customer the option of paying directly for the parts and the materials if they prefer to. Give them a list of everything I need and the supplier information and let them pay for it. I do charge for my time to put the list together and research the suppliers but they would pay for that either way. In my mind, this helps the customer to realize I am not cheating him out of anything or trying to take him to the cleaners. May only provide a psychological benefit but it does help.
 
yes, its the exposure that changes the view.

Dont really know how these comments are tracking along, but when Chad said he cant estimate. can you just estimate time frame, then know what you need to pay? Average gas, electric costs, rent, employees pay over that time period will give you a real world number if you know they will be on the car for a month or two you at least have the go broke numbers.
 
i will say this. i will not enter into anything open ended. not directed at anyone but i like to know exactly what i am getting into. now people do get into the build and start adding things. when they do we discuss it and write it up and sign it. i tell folks up front i do not like late game changes and in some cases i flat refuse. things have changed over the years.
 
I hope you guys don't see me as being critical, I was just trying to give the customer's point of view. Or at least mine if I am ever a customer :) It's a crappy world out there filled with hacks and straight up dishonest people. If I spent years saving to have major work done I would be nervous without some sort of structure/plan/schedule that's all. Nothing personal.
 
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