Restoration and custom work

C

chevy_power427

I own my own shop since a little over a year and a half. I have been in the body shop business over 13 years.

I am interested in knowing how you guys that own shops that do mostly restoration and custom stuff have done to do so. Tell me your stories.

I know that to do so, it doesn't happen overnight, and that you have to make a name for yourselves.
 
Take this for what it's worth as I don't have any sort of "name" or "reputation". I've also put some thought into this question as well. Unless you have some perfect circumstances you need to think outside the box. Build something, show it, and you'll get some interest if your work is good. A 2nd option is to build something popular and then sell it perhaps at an Auction like Mecum or Barret Jackson. If you hold yourself to high standards and always keep trying to improve/innovate people will start to notice and the work will come. Just make sure it's the right work that you can actually make some money on. Social Media and a website are important these days for getting the word out. Good Luck! :)
 
if you remember anything remember that the busiest shop in town is the cheapest and also the first to go under.

they cant all be perfect . hard eight for a full eight .
 
I started with a collision shop and drifted into restoration/custom work and now rarely ever do a collision job. I find that there isn't as much money in Resto/Custom work as there can be in collision if you are a quick worker and do good work to both get referrals and to not have comebacks.

You can beat the time on collision work but you can't on resto/custom work. Everything we do is by the hour so we charge for the time we put into the projects, there is no book time for us to beat, and when things go wrong it's really hard to get paid for all of your time. I call this a labor of love job. If I had to survive on my shop alone I doubt I would still be here as it would be hard to keep up with the over head. And I would most likely find myself drifting back into collision work... However I personally hate doing collision work, it's to routine for me with little reward. It's much easier now as we have a good customer base but making the transition was tough and I'm not sure if I would want to go through it again. It's just a big decision to make the transition so you need to put a lot of thought into it.
 
Being a new shop, I don't expect to have a lot of demand for that kind of work. People that know me and my work have referred people to me that want restoration and custom work, but the problem is that they don't have a clue of the labor and material costs to get a car done. Most of these people want me to give them a price before touching the car, some even before even seeing the car. I just can't do that, and I will not do such things, we never know what is lurking underneath that paint, some cars have been repainted 4 times since. Also the problem, in a big city like mine with many bodyshops around, is that some give prices that I could never give. Funny thing, is that the customers don't even ask what paint is going to go on the car, it's like they don't care, but I try to educate them, comparing a little bit with the paint used in homes, that there is qualities.

When I started my shop, a little over a year and a half ago, I retained customers from the previous shop owner, he used to rebuild a lot of salvage cars. That work just got me depressed, these guys were buying the cars to resell them, whatever they could save as parts they would, they argue about the prices, I just stopped doing this. Now i'm doing collision work mostly, but sometimes think about the custom/restoration work. Right now, I don't get a lot of insurance work, some most of the time, I charge labor + materials, so I wouldn't change much. I am always busy, I always try to do my best with whatever job I get to do.
 
I don't own a shop and really never planned on working for other people. My own car was not even finished yet when someone asked me to restore one for them. I wasn't sure how to quote it so I told him Time and Materials and that I bill monthly. I also put the stipulation in that I do not work 40 hours a week on his project so it may take 6 months to a year depending on how bad it is once I dismantle and strip the paint. Since that time I have always had more work than I can handle. I am very selective in who I work for and if a customer doesn't pay last month's bill, I stop working on his car until he does. That way neither of us is in over his head. Every month we are even and if they need to come get the car they can.
 
If I could get work that people would be willing to pay time plus materials, and that I could put the time I need, without rushing, to get the job done properly and nicely, I would be very happy. I just hate the production style work, everything is rushed, I am often not happy with the end result, even if the customer is happy, the worst feeling possible. It's not about making money, it's being happy with the accomplishment.
 
it is about making money . if you do not operate as a business you will fail in the end. doing it part time out back is one thing but if you continuously over produce you will eventually go under.
you cant sell a thousand dollar bull for 500 dollars and expect to keep the ranch very long .
 
chevy_power427;n79222 said:
If I could get work that people would be willing to pay time plus materials, and that I could put the time I need, without rushing, to get the job done properly and nicely, I would be very happy. I just hate the production style work, everything is rushed, I am often not happy with the end result, even if the customer is happy, the worst feeling possible. It's not about making money, it's being happy with the accomplishment.
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You need to be profitable but I tell you what, there are times where you won't be, It can be a juggling act, overall you have to be profitable or you will be out of business in no time. And one big mess up can put you out of business just as quick. No matter how careful you are things still happen.

I feel you are better off working on collision work financially, however I don't like doing collision work full time. I see many shops start up and go out of business really quick once they realize how much effort it takes to do restoration / custom work, not to mention the equipment involved to do so efficiently.
 
Restoration work can be less profitable because there are far fewer parts sales than collision jobs, especially the kinds of sales that carry a decent markup. It is important to track all material usage on resto jobs, because they can be far more material intensive than you think.
 
Yes, you have to track EVERYTHING.. Ever job in the shop gets it's own supplies, sand paper, cut off wheels,fillers, grinding discs, tape, etc etc. At the end of the job I hand the extras to the customer. Something I require to do a job for anybody, it's way to easy to loose track of a lot of money.

If the customer has no use for the left over products I will typically offer to buy the items back but then at least the customer has paid for what is used. It is a PIA but with the cost of materials these days you can't really afford any other option.
 
I have a laptop in the garage and use spreadsheets for time log in with job description, another for material and amount used, and one master spreadsheet where I track monthly billing, payments, and parts. I used to print these sheets out and hand write stuff in but found it easier to enter directly into the laptop and cut and paste from there.

At the end of the month, I move the labor and materials totals to the master sheet. This allows me to review the total hours, materials and parts that I have invested into the car. I generate the invoice from that sheet, save the invoice in a folder, then when payment comes in, I log the amount, method of payment, check #, etc. and if everything is right the balance due will zero out.
I also keep a material costs spreadsheet where I track costs (with shipping) of materials like PSA sandpaper rolls broken down to the cost per inch. I have gloves, dust masks, masking tape, etc. broken down so that I only charge for what I use.
 
I like the spreadsheet method, It would take me some time to remember how to use one but they weren't to bad from what I remember.

And we tried to count by the sheet but I found with three guys sanding that became a hassle and we would loose track of things, so now we use full items and do a return when done, pretty much the same thing just backwards.. Customers that take the refund always like it when they get their final bill. lol.. We have one customer that is doing possibly four vehicles so for him it will just roll over and the start of his next project could potentially be cheaper, especially if he has left over sand paper, primers and clear.
 
Good advice, the spreadsheet method is something i'll try. When I said it wasn't about the money, I didn't mean it didn't have to be profitable, I am still a business, and the bills have to get paid ;)
 
That could be another way of doing. The insurance here calculates shop materials, per bodywork hour payed.
 
We are going by the mentality of build one to get yourself noticed. Well, now build 2. We are doing it on the side of the industrial anodize, paint and powdercoat business, hoping restoration takes over. Eventually, everyone wants a customer to order a car, drop off 30K, come back in 6-9 months to get it and pay the rest. Thats gonna take time, but the interest for customs will always be around.
 
shine;n79269 said:
shop rates should take care of materials and supplies .
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No way, materials are way to expensive to include in the rate. Especially if including spray-ables.

But even sand paper, a roll of premium sand paper is around $75.00 per roll, and grinding discs at $50.00 a box.. I'm not even going to try to figure out a rate that would include those items.

It's much easier to do that on the collision side but we go through way more materials on a restoration.

I guess I could raise my rate way up to cover it but this method works well.
 
For advertising you have to target your market. Build a car for the type of work you want, join clubs related to the car and go to the meets. It helps to have a car but you can sell yourself at the meets.

Depending on your market a giant neck tattoo might not be accepted. I know it's the craze in the custom world but in the resto world where you are representing a clients car and your business it generally isn't cool. Different crowd.

I'm starting my 11th year on my own and many before that part time. I do restorations because I'm in that crowd and most are sure paychecks. I haven't done any customs for customers as it would ruin the type of cars I work on. To busy to branch out I guess.

I network with other restorers and we communicate when a guy is a PIA or deadbeat. Chances are they are going shop to shop so we have each other's backs.

Also, it's nothing like the TV shows make it. It's not glamorous and most of the time it isn't fun and they pay can be lacking at times. (can't usually bill twice when things go wrong) And with old cars things go wrong. Those shows hurt the guys who try in my opinion. Cars can't be built in a week or a month with the attention to detail required to go anywhere.
 
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