New Evercoat body filler- Rage Ultra-

I may have to give this and the Quantum a try.. I've been on the edge about fillers for a while now.. I feel like the Marson/3m platinum has been changing. we have been getting a lot more pinholes with it and it seems to be sanding different.. It could very well just be me but it sure seems like something is different..

I also just recently tried the fillers that Moto-Base has. I was actually surprised with them, they seemed to be pretty decent as well. However they didn't seem to be as glaze-ish as I typically like. They seem to be a good conventional filler but not as thin as the platinum.. Next time the rep stops by I am going to talk to him about what other options they have. If I could thin it just a little bit I may try them out on a bigger project.
 
So I'm reading some of you guys are really liking rage ultra? I've been using rage gold which I thought was good, nice working time, kind of a medium weight spread, not terrible on pin holes, sands great... Is ultra better than the old "gold"? Damn, I just ordered and received 2 more cans of gold so I'll have to burn through that first.

How about glaze?

I'm currently using evercoat metal glaze and I'm ok with it, very thin spread, good work time and it sands good in situations where I have to skim a few really thin low spots I find while blocking poly. It really seems to work well for that.

I tried evercoat eurosoft, I liked the long work time, it is kind of heavy bodied for a glaze but does spread decent. But it sands like iron, very hard to skim a shallow low spot while blocking primer because it sands way harder than the primer you are trying to level it to.
 
for glaze try the upol dolphin glaze. its exactly the same as ecoat metal glaze but it lasts way longer being in a foil pouch instead of the plastic bottle the ecoat comes in. the mg would get thick on me in no time. i have packets of dol glaze that have been on the shelf for a year and they are the same consistency as the day i got them.
 
Jim C said:
for glaze try the upol dolphin glaze. its exactly the same as ecoat metal glaze but it lasts way longer being in a foil pouch instead of the plastic bottle the ecoat comes in. the mg would get thick on me in no time. i have packets of dol glaze that have been on the shelf for a year and they are the same consistency as the day i got them.
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DG is an awesome product it works killer in taking out people runs when they get a lil happy with the clear. Lol
 
Thanks, I'll give the dolphin glaze a try, I've seen it, just not tried it.

I just purchased evercoat metalglaze in the foil pouches last week. local jobber had them for $18 a pouch, I got 3.

I like the pouches, you can mix them a bit, they are less messy than the stupid hard plastic bottles or jugs, and you can get all of the product out of the pouch, unlike the stupid "pumper jugs", god I hate those things.

lol
 
There is metal glaze ultra also, which I use. Sands very nicely also. But since I use the Rage Ultra, I have cut down on glaze, it sands so nicely, I rarely use unless I really need to glaze a large surface.

I find there is no work time anymore with the Ultra since it sands so nicely even when it dries overnight. When I started my shop a little over a year ago a rep gave me a gallon on lightweight, if let too long it was terrible to sand. Sometimes the phone rang or a customer came in right after I was done spreading...... Isn't an issue anymore. I also waste less sand paper.
 
I have used the metal glaze ultra, I really liked it but I couldn't find it in the pouches and I kind of like the pouches. Using the regular metal glaze right now and i think it's pretty nice to work with. I will try rage ultra though, less glaze work would be a good thing.
 
ahh its been some years i didnt know metal glaze was avail in foil pouches. when i quit using it, it was just those squeeze tubs.
 
I really dislike those squeeze tubs.

You know, I noticed in the autobodytoolmart catalogs the rage ultra says "best seller" next to it. I wanted to try it, but I was pretty happy with the rage gold. Not I have 2 gallons of that to use up, oh well. I'll keep rage ultra on the radar.
 
Chris_Hamilton;n80165 said:
Jim I doubt the Rage Ultra is gonna sand as well as the Quantum. It acts pretty much like a conventional body filler, levels out better especially in warmer temps. But compared to the Rage Gold, or other comparable products it really sands easy. I have to be careful when using a glaze over it as the Evercoat Metal Glaze I use sands harder than the Ultra and if I sand through, the Ultra will sand easier than the glaze and will give you a low spot. Very few pinholes, none if you are very careful applying it but nothing like more conventional body fillers.



A cheesegrater will do the same thing. You can also rough it in with a Mudhog (8" orbital sander). Personally I like to get my metal very close so that I don't have to rough something in. Maybe a little cheesegrating and block with 80 grit. As my former boss "Vito" used to say "bada bing bada boom...easy.:)
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The cheese grater works really well, as does the mud hog, but the grater is way cheaper and uses a lot less air.
 
Why bother with a grater. Use a buffer grinder with a 6" disc. When you have reverse crown use star disc. Go with the grain of the panel and you shouldn't even have to block.
 
true65mustang;n80265 said:
Why bother with a grater. Use a buffer grinder with a 6" disc. When you have reverse crown use star disc. Go with the grain of the panel and you shouldn't even have to block.
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How much work using this technique have you actually done? What do you mean by the grain of the panel? What is a star disc? I could see in very limited circumstances it may work but on anything large (i.e. larger than the diameter of the pad I cant see it working other than to cut it down quickly. But for anything complex, multiple body lines, etc, no way.
 
I use this method daily many many times. My old instructor from salt lake community college owned and managed his shop. He has been preaching this method for 52 years. There are many body shops here in Slc that tell Bodyman that they need them to go to SLCC and take grovers class because they use all his methods and teachings. Same goes for the painting teacher who owned his custom painting shop for 40 years. Each panel has grain bumper door hood etc. if you cut against the grain it will zip into the panel and create a low area. Followed correctly you will say good by to the sanding block easily 9 out of 10 times. Or 10 out of 10 if you also get a small grinder. Below are pictures of panel grain and the grinder discs. The hexagon disc or star disc, is used for reversed crown or when coming to a body line and you don't want to zip into it. Used correctly you will see that the grinder will show you exactly where contour is and where you need filler or where body work is still needed. Also if your not sure which way to hold the grinder just remember it goes in a clock wise rotation.
 
Best and easiest method I have found is using rage ultra. While it still "green" , use mirka autonet 80 on a block. It works like a grater but better. When the autonet stops cutting, take it off and blow out clean, then keep blocking. By the time its leveled, it's hardened and ready for next wipe or next grit. It's not that easy with other fillers though.
 
Did you cut the disks that way? I have never seen disks like that.
 
I get my star discs at a local auto body supply and my teacher has gotten them there for 40+ years they are a 3m brand. But you can make your own. I tend to do this more as they are cheaper to make. Plus if you draw this templet out you can trim the discs down so you have many different sizes and applications. A good low budget buffer grinder is the harbor freight http://m.harborfreight.com/7-inch-electronic-polisher-66615.html. This plus a good backing pad will equal an excellent way to cut your filler accurately and fast
 
true65mustang;n80288 said:
I use this method daily many many times. My old instructor from salt lake community college owned and managed his shop. He has been preaching this method for 52 years. There are many body shops here in Slc that tell Bodyman that they need them to go to SLCC and take grovers class because they use all his methods and teachings. Same goes for the painting teacher who owned his custom painting shop for 40 years. Each panel has grain bumper door hood etc. if you cut against the grain it will zip into the panel and create a low area. Followed correctly you will say good by to the sanding block easily 9 out of 10 times. Or 10 out of 10 if you also get a small grinder. Below are pictures of panel grain and the grinder discs. The hexagon disc or star disc, is used for reversed crown or when coming to a body line and you don't want to zip into it. Used correctly you will see that the grinder will show you exactly where contour is and where you need filler or where body work is still needed. Also if your not sure which way to hold the grinder just remember it goes in a clock wise rotation.
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Years ago work along side a old bodyman who used a star shaped grinding disc to cut his plastic then finish off w/ and old national da , no block or air file. He was the best and top earner and work was very good for dealeship
 
Like I said done correctly and going with the grain you can seriously limit or elliminate having to block sand! Here in SLC many many body shops will all say go to SLCC and take the body course cause that's the methods we use here. So obviously they beleive that it works to. Practice sanding a fender or door or something it get the hang of holding the grinder as that's the hardest part. Next on a variable speed grinder don't have it to low of a speed of it will just naw into the filler. If you have a good high speed where the grinder doesn't bog down when you stroke the filler that's when you know you have it adjusted into the sweet spot. Practice this way on something and it will work great.
 
true65mustang said:
Like I said done correctly and going with the grain you can seriously limit or elliminate having to block sand! Here in SLC many many body shops will all say go to SLCC and take the body course cause that's the methods we use here. So obviously they beleive that it works to. Practice sanding a fender or door or something it get the hang of holding the grinder as that's the hardest part. Next on a variable speed grinder don't have it to low of a speed of it will just naw into the filler. If you have a good high speed where the grinder doesn't bog down when you stroke the filler that's when you know you have it adjusted into the sweet spot. Practice this way on something and it will work great.
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Will you make a video of this and post to YouTube?
 
I cut discs like that to reach into corners or to "freshen up" an old disc, but if you are telling me I can use a 7" disc and get it as straight or straighter than a 9" block (or longer) I am sorry, I dont believe it.

I have trade magazines from the 50's and 60's that advocate using chicken wire and newspaper, as well as ads for the Schott panels that are intended to be used over the existing panel. The old ways arent always the best.

Marty.
 
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