let's talk sanding

im going to tell you what i just did some testing. most of you know im all about the eagle stuff but use the 5000 trizact as well after the green bufflex. well eagle discontinued the wet bufflex green discs awhile back and now they have gone all dry so i wanted to give this stuff a try first since i am down to my last box or two of wet green. well dry the green was ok, nothing super impressive. it did work and i guess for a 2500 grit it lasted awhile being dry. i decided to try again but this time finish my panel with 1500 grit dry with finishing film as before then try one of these green dry discs but instead dry run it wet....HOLY CRAP! what a difference. this takes the old green wet and 3000 trizacts and blows both out of the water. it cuts about as fast as 1000 grit and im telling you that i bet you could do an entire car with 1 disc. i have done a harley and 3 sportbikes and i am still running the same disc and its cutting like i just put it on. it cuts the 1500 out like butter. ok thats that. after that i took this same panel and i sanded 1/2 with a 5000 trizact and the other 1/2 i did with a black bufflex dry disc but again i did it wet. wiped the panel off and buffed with 3m perfect it compound and a foam pad. there was absolutely zero difference in buffing speed or difficulty between the black bufflex and 5000 trizact. i should note this was on 3 day old universal clear. now as for a price comparison, trizact discs are about $120 for 15 discs. a 3000 disc does about 2 panels on a car. so figure average 1/2 box per car $60. bufflex is $50 for 25 discs. lets go overboard and say it takes 2 discs to do a whole car even though i bet only one. thats 4 bucks to sand the car in 3000 grit. 5000 trizact for some reason lasts longer. 2-3 discs to do the car so figure $20-$30 for that step and again $4 bucks for eagle. i will never buy another trizact disc....ever!
 
Thanks for the comparison, what DA do you use with the bufflex? I see you're in NJ, what town? I'm up north in Rivervale.
 
Could you list all of the sand paper items you use for a sanding job? Also with part number? You have me convinced, I think I am going to give this a try.. I am not really impressed with the trizact stuff. Which is why we wet sand by hand so much, but there are just some projects that don't need that much elbow grease, and I have one in mind coming up shortly. And it is black.
 
chad, for the part i actually do dry which is the 1000 and 1500 i use the yellow film discs which are like 3m's finishing film but better. i dont always start with 1000. all depends on the job really. in any case those #'s are 778-1000 and 778-1500. second # is the grit. they make that in a bunch of different ones so you can get whatever you like but i always end with 1500 before i jump to the green bufflex. the green bufflex discs are 193-1535 and the black ones are 193-1534. both of those get used on a soft interface pad. you can use whatever brand. i was using 3m but eagle has theirs also.

chad the 2 biggest problems i have with trizact is of course #1 the 3m price tag and #2 its very difficult to tell when they slow down or stop cutting. i guess because of the foam they will just keep making foamy slurry so you think its cutting but its not and you left with a ton of sand scratches left on the panel that havent been worked out so you end up wasting time sanding and you have to buff the crap out of the panel anyway. the green bufflex cuts so friggin fast when you use it wet that you can work out the 1500 scratches in seconds and you know when the discs are wiped and stop cutting.

for the da i was using just a standard 3/16" orbit 3m da. im down south near hammonton. about 1/2hr west of atlantic city. rivervale.....never heard of it. that must be way up there lol.
 
also just for in this thread, i have used the new norton q275 dry ice finishing film. i guess it replaces or its the improved q260. ehhh......nothing special. its probably equal to or maybe slightly better than 3m. who knows but neither are as good as the yellow eagle discs. also used the orange usc -----@--------- discs i think they are called. those were total garbage. atleast in the colorsanding grits of 1000 and 1500.
 
Thank you Jim for all of that, it is much appreciated. I was looking at eagle on amazon, It looks like they go up to 2000 grit in the yellow super tack.

I will look for the bufflex.

I agree with the -----@--------- orange, I am going through them like crazy. If I can get my hands on the stupid donut shaped interface pad maybe I could make the film go further, but as for now they load in the center of the film and pigtail immediately, once they load, they seem to be done because you can clear the film but it loads immediately again.

I tried the orange film wet and it doesn't do much at all, tried it with different DA's on up to a 5/16" action, it just won't cut wet.
 
Jim and others, when dry film sanding clear on a large horizontal surface like a roof, deck lid, hoot etc. Do you do anything special to clear the sanding dust as you go, so your sanding film isn't climbing up on it? A little blow gun, vacuum sander?

Just an update here for shine because I think he has some synwave film to try. (-----@---------)

I put on a 3M interface pad with holes in it and I'm finding that the 1500 grit synwave is working for me (dry) with the interface pad with holes. even though the film doesn't have holes, the holes i n the interface pad give the clear coat dust someplace to collect up without balling/pigtailing. I can work a panel section and clear the paper on my jeans, wipe the panel with a soft dry cloth as I go so I can see the pockets of the orange peel.

This is on 1 week old universal clear, 3/32 hutchins 3500. I am leveling OP, will follow with 3000 synwave dry with same interface pad then compound with 3M perfect it EX, and polish.

I will finish this job with the -----@--------- synwave because that's what I have on hand. I will order the eagle products that Jim is working with for my next project.
 
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I've had more time today with the synwave film now. I believe I should have ordered 1500, 2000 and 3000. Instead, I ordered 1500 and 3000.

I'm doing ok with it now that I have an interface pad, but I can see that I should have the 2000 also if I am to give it a fair chance.
 
i dont do anything to clear the dust. i actually always use discs with no holes. keep in mind that unless your sanding super fresh clear....clear that will still fingerprint, then the little blalls that build up on your aper arent what cause pigtails. i know you see them in the sanding dust and it freaks you out but thats not the problem. a random deep pigtail is from dirt. i can take a loaded disc with tons of stuck on balls, put it on a clean panel and sand all day long with no problem at all. The problem i had with the orange -----@--------- stuff was it loaded almost instantly as soon as it hit the panel. that stuff was terrible. as a general rule of thumb, whatever you get sqft wise with a 3m finishing film disc then the eagle yellow will give you usually 2-4 times that.
 
Jim C said:
chad, for the part i actually do dry which is the 1000 and 1500 i use the yellow film discs which are like 3m's finishing film but better. i dont always start with 1000. all depends on the job really. in any case those #'s are 778-1000 and 778-1500. second # is the grit. they make that in a bunch of different ones so you can get whatever you like but i always end with 1500 before i jump to the green bufflex. the green bufflex discs are 193-1535 and the black ones are 193-1534. both of those get used on a soft interface pad. you can use whatever brand. i was using 3m but eagle has theirs also.

chad the 2 biggest problems i have with trizact is of course #1 the 3m price tag and #2 its very difficult to tell when they slow down or stop cutting. i guess because of the foam they will just keep making foamy slurry so you think its cutting but its not and you left with a ton of sand scratches left on the panel that havent been worked out so you end up wasting time sanding and you have to buff the crap out of the panel anyway. the green bufflex cuts so friggin fast when you use it wet that you can work out the 1500 scratches in seconds and you know when the discs are wiped and stop cutting.

for the da i was using just a standard 3/16" orbit 3m da. im down south near hammonton. about 1/2hr west of atlantic city. rivervale.....never heard of it. that must be way up there lol.
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I think I am going to give this a try, may try to hunt down what warehouse carries this stuff.

As far as the 3M goes, pretty much nailed all of my issues with it.. I find it also hard to justify the ridiculous price tag that goes along with it as well.. I don't mind hand sanding because when we do it we all jump in and start sanding so it goes fairly quick.. typically I like a hand blocked finish much more than what the DA sanders will give you. However we are kinda tight on budget on the 64 and another project that we just started so I need to speed up the process.. It seems all techniques have a place.

I've always wanted to go to Atlantic city, maybe next time I do metal shaping class I will come check out the area.. I'm always pressed for time when I head that way but I can typically sneak in a extra day to see some things.. Granted when I do I like to punish myself by driving through the night to make up for it.. Last time I made it to times square and then ground zero at like 3-4am.. lol.
 
Jim C said:
also just for in this thread, i have used the new norton q275 dry ice finishing film. i guess it replaces or its the improved q260. ehhh......nothing special. its probably equal to or maybe slightly better than 3m. who knows but neither are as good as the yellow eagle discs. also used the orange usc -----@--------- discs i think they are called. those were total garbage. atleast in the colorsanding grits of 1000 and 1500.
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what about their square sanding sheets? Are they superior as well? I use the Norton black ice typically. Or the other brand that sells their sheets in packs of 25.. I am drawing a blank to the brand name.
 
Thanks.

After seeing some success today with an all dry process, Well my mind is kind of blown.

I've been wet blocking all my clear by hand for years. I'm excited to refine this process for my needs a little.

Does your eagle yellow super tack dry discs not have holes? It's hard to tell on their website because I think they use photos that might not exactly match their part numbers.
 
the 778 prefix does not have holes. 779 is the ones with holes. its funny other than 3000 and up i havent wetsanded in my shop in 15 years or more. i dont even have a piece of wet/dry paper in my shop anywhere. i hate it. makes a muddy mess. then again dry makes a dusty mess lol. with dust though i can clean my shop with a backpack blower! lol
 
Jim C said:
the 778 prefix does not have holes. 779 is the ones with holes. its funny other than 3000 and up i havent wetsanded in my shop in 15 years or more. i dont even have a piece of wet/dry paper in my shop anywhere. i hate it. makes a muddy mess. then again dry makes a dusty mess lol. with dust though i can clean my shop with a backpack blower! lol
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I do my wet-sanding in my wash room. So I just wash each panel after sanding.. Leaves a nice clean panel for buffing..
 
Jim, your green and black buflex discs, You said you are now using the dry? they are a hook n loop backer? Do yours have holes in the discs?

Thanks.
 
yes, hook and loop and they do have holes. if you go on their website anything they call s-tack, short for super tack,....that is what they call hook and loop
 
Alright thanks!

Ordering now, just wanted to make sure that was right.
 
Jim - I'm sold on your process!

Are you using an Eagle interface pad with the 1000/1500 yellow film? I talked to Sammy at Eagle and he recommended the 971-0042 with the yellow film. I also asked him about using the Green/Black buflex wet and he said it would last longer that way because when running dry, the dry lubricant eventually runs out causing the disc to heat up and stop cutting. He was estimating 20 discs each black/green to do an entire car dry, which sounds high. He also mentioned that their Tolex line is slightly "better" than the yellow film. It was the go to product before the yellow film was available in the higher grits.
 
haha 20 discs. well I just did a whole 57 chevy and that's no small car. 2 green, 3 or 4 black I cant remember. I do use an interface pad but not eagle. I'm glad you posted that # because I cant stand the 3m interface pads and wanted some of the eagle ones but I couldn't figure out what was the right thing to order. 3m interface pads don't last long. I have used the eagle ones a long time ago and they were great. lasted a long time.
 
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