getting away with murder

J

jeremyb

Just took on a 67 corvette coupe. This car was completely restored by a "TOP" corvette restorer in the midwest. They tout themselves as just that, saying they have MANY top flight , ncrs gold, and bloomington gold awards. Now the owner of this vette now, is not the original owner. He is the second owner, as the original had it restored by these guys. I'll just let the pictures do it justice...
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Base price for restorting this year vette, small block, is 95K is what is listed on their website. Paint isn't the only thing wrong with this car. I'm no vette expert, but a good customer of mine is re-doing this car for a customer of his, and he's been restoring corvettes for over 20 years. The complete chassis is full of wrong colors, wrong bolts, wrong clamps on hoses... frame and suspension components full of pitts...wrong black gloss levels..list goes on. They say they used spies on this car. I am ASSUMING the red, is laquer primer...laquer thinner rag takes it right off and the ss black pops right off. What gets me, is that under the red looks like regular urethane black primer which is on top of A LOT of filler. Replaced the driver door, and have some work to do on the poorly installed driver quarter. Bubbles on the hood also. No where NEAR a $95k resto.

I am wondering how shops do this type of work, charge that type of money, and still are able to stay in business!? I don't care if they did this car as a "driver" , still isn't an excuse...it is a 2004ish frame off restoration and i'm scraping the paint right off!! It was bad enough that it needed a repaint anyway...i was kinda dumbfounded when we broke out the razor blades.
 
My cousin tried to buy a new Mustang in 1965 but because of a strike it couldn't be delivered in time so he was forced to settle for a two-year old Corvette on the dealer's used car lot. At 300,000 miles he had the engine rebuilt (didn't burn oil or run bad) he just wanted it reliable so he could give it to his son when he graduated college. His son couldn't afford to take care of the car so my cousin took it back and sent it in for one of those $95K restorations. About $130K and it's back on the street -- with the flares, sidepipes and Cragars just like the day he bought it. They did some frame repair and painted it black, a little bodywork, a paint job and interior. Engine was detailed but not rebuilt.Ron's '63 135.jpg

Ron's '63 001.jpg

Ron's '63 114.jpg

Ron's '63 067.jpg

Ron's '63 003.jpg

Ron's '63 133.jpg
 
lacquer never had very good adhesion. we always stripped them with a blade back then. lacquer will gas out to the point that it is powder. this is why old lacquer jobs under urethane will get the pimples. the big trick to lacquer was not to use too much primer. the more primer the sooner the failure.
i may be a hack but i got 30 year customers still coming back.......... :p
 
Yes that red is Dupont 80s, choice of a lot of vette restorers back in 70-80's.

Really to be honest, I would expect nothing less to have happened to that paint, considering it is lacquer.

In defense of the shop, don't have a clue who they are, a lot of shops got burnt about the same time this car was done.
They were using lacquer and knew what to expect but when the lead started coming out, they had no clue the surprise they were about to witness as the car aged.
 
and everyone thought lacquer was easy. hardest damn paint there is to get right. too thick -it cracks , to thin - it disappears . i was lucky enough to learn from some of the old lacquer painters. try shooting a car in lacquer without doing a cut and buff.
 
JB,
Just reading some more of post.

They said they used Spies?? I never knew spies had a lacquer as they came to the US at the start of Base/clear, like Sikkens did.

I don't know for sure but never heard of either of those companies offering a lacquer in US?????
 
Thats what they say the black is. Single Stage spies. As for the laquer primer, i have no idea. I didn't know people were still using laquer primer back in 2004 on vettes...i mean thats only 6 years ago...am i just showing my ignorance? Under the laquer primer is black urethane primer or it appears to be. Wont rub off with solvent.
 
We got burned over the years many times... The work on this car looks pretty decent from the picture...I think alot of hours went into it
 
Could be the spies....after further inspection i can make out sand scratches in the brown so i know it was sanded. I'm sure a lot of hours went into the car...but not 95k worth of work. Original customer could have not wanted to pay a whole lot and got an average resto...but when the car is on the lift and i see small detail things that they did RIGHT (things you WOULDN'T do on just an average resto driver) and the rest just looks half ass...it kills me. Car is a nice "driver" with a "perfect show quality" price tag. EATS me up. One good thing about it....gave me work to do in the shop!
 
shine;2729 said:
and everyone thought lacquer was easy. hardest damn paint there is to get right. too thick -it cracks , to thin - it disappears . i was lucky enough to learn from some of the old lacquer painters. try shooting a car in lacquer without doing a cut and buff.
Click to expand...

good ol lacquer "shine" coat... 90-95% lac thinner and the rest color or clear.. shine away..
 
jeremyb;2781 said:
Could be the spies....after further inspection i can make out sand scratches in the brown so i know it was sanded. I'm sure a lot of hours went into the car...but not 95k worth of work. Original customer could have not wanted to pay a whole lot and got an average resto...but when the car is on the lift and i see small detail things that they did RIGHT (things you WOULDN'T do on just an average resto driver) and the rest just looks half ass...it kills me. Car is a nice "driver" with a "perfect show quality" price tag. EATS me up. One good thing about it....gave me work to do in the shop!
Click to expand...
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JB,
You must remember, there are two sides to every story, unless I saw the receipt I would not take anyones word for it.
Second, unless you do a bunch of these type cars, what people don't understand is a lot of time, they came in as a basket case or just pain butchered up.

I bet over the years i have made a dozen rear wheel lips that had been cut off to put larger tires on the car.
Just replacing the interior and ALL the gages, trips inside the car will easily reach $10,000, glass, glass frames, door handles and all out side trim and chrome need addressed.
We can be at $30,000 in parts and that is if car was in good shape to Begin with.

OK, here is the shop bill:
$30,000 parts.
$15,000 labor
$20,000 bodywork and paint.
Total $65,000.

Now how does the customer explain this bill?
The shop charged me $65,000, to paint my car.

Another note, the two guys the did the Riddler car winner this year were over a month ago looking at my vette, all that shop does is high dollar restros.
Like the one guy said, when someone brings in a vette he hands them the Ecklers book and says, start by ordering every inside piece that says 1967 and that will be a good start.
 
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you mix a wannabe and a tightwad this is what you get. chances are the customer paid nowhere near that price. they will get you to do just a driver job and then complain because they don't win shows and lie about it. caught one 30 years ago and swore i would never do a "deal" again. don't know the shop so cant say anything about their work .

that and many shops cant do lacquer . over reducing lacquer will give you a hard brittle film guaranteed to fail . just as excessive film build will .
 
shine;2976 said:
you mix a wannabe and a tightwad this is what you get. chances are the customer paid nowhere near that price. they will get you to do just a driver job and then complain because they don't win shows and lie about it. caught one 30 years ago and swore i would never do a "deal" again. don't know the shop so cant say anything about their work .

that and many shops cant do lacquer . over reducing lacquer will give you a hard brittle film guaranteed to fail . just as excessive film build will .
Click to expand...

I've never heard ANYONE at a car show say "Yeaaa i was a tightwad about getting it restored. They only did what i told them to do and only went as far as my tight wallet would allow" . It always comes out as "Dont take your car to these guys....i told them i wanted it RIGHT and didn't mind paying whatever it took. " Been there done that.......its always funny when you hear that from one of their buddies...and when you correct them they have nothing to say.

I'll give it to the guys who did this car, the engine bay and interior are REALLY nice. Those 2 areas are the only ones we aren't going to have to touch. That might have been all the original owner wanted to look that nice. Who knows. I just know if i held myself to this high standard of doing gold cars and have it plastered on my main page, i wouldn't be caught no where near this car. Different views i guess... That's why i dont hold myself to any high standard!! :p
 
shine;2976 said:
that and many shops cant do lacquer . over reducing lacquer will give you a hard brittle film guaranteed to fail . just as excessive film build will .
Click to expand...

I agree, the longest lasting lacquer job I did was a candy and the clear went on that car with no thinner, this was Dupont's 380S if I remember correctly, the product was going on fast enough that thinner wasn't necessary. Two gallons unreduced, coat after coat. One old timer told me the key to long life with lacquer products is do not over reduce- he said the resin goes to hell. I watched that car for cracking for quite a few years before it was sold.
 
what i was refering to was after u have ur color or clear built up to where u want it, color sand it one last time and do a overreduced coat of clear or color for that final coat.
 
why ? over reducing lacquer destroys it. does nothing for the appearance .

bob, i still have a gal of 380 clear .
 
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I use to love that 380, can't tell you how many gallons I went through but I do remember the jobber telling me that I bought about 90% of what they sold.

Most of you weren't born then, so if you don't know what 380 is, don't worry about it. LOL
 
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