For the newER painters.

Barry

Barry

Paint Fanatic
Staff member
I did a paint class in Johnson City, TN Saturday and had people in the class from full timer painters to thinking about painting and some thing I realized, is there as well as on the phone many times a week, I tell people the biggest mistake newer painters make is not sanding enough!

This includes bodyfiller, primer and clearcoat, I'm to far along to show primer but here are a couple for good examples.

First last week I sprayed four wet coats of Universal, some is 4000 and some is 4100 as I had them laying around so mixed up and mixed together to get about 2 gallons or just under on the car.

The dull picture is what the clear looked like after, wet sanding with 600 and a soft pad and then 1000 with soft pad and then 1500 wet with a soft pad.
Note, there is no shinny spots and all imperfections are gone, any spot on picture may just be dirt, not sure.
Like Shine says--If it is there it will be there when done.

Most painters on this step are to timid and really just wasting time wet sanding, as really not doing anything.

Next buffed pictures.
Painter, new ones seem to be scared to buff, both of these quarters were hit ONE time with the Black wool pad and Presta Ultra cutting cream.
As I say 20 times a week on phone, first buffing is two SQ feet until every scratch is out, then next two feet, when done with panel, do NOT clean pad or panel, go over the panel until it looks like you washed and dried it.

These panels will get at least three more buffing with finner compounds and finner pads but I did not clean quarters before the picture, see any swirls, scratches, orange peel? Now the nice part is the other buffings will be doing nothing but putting on a shine, as I will not need to worry about any scratches or inperfections.
I have right at 9-10 hours in wetsanding and about four to five full days of buffing left.
It has got to be gone after this step and best with wet sanding or it will never be right.


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vette_001_(900_x_675).jpg

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Hey is that your house in the reflection.. lol.
I'll have to remember that trick next time so i don't get my mug in the shot! :)

Looking good barry.
 
Your not accusing me of playing hooky from work yesterday and today? Yea, its the house , when I wetsand and buff, no one would want to see me in the picture, wife won't even let me walk down to mail box, says I would get arrested.
 
BUSTED!!!! Lol.. Just messing with you, you need a break, and like me, taking a break means working on your car..
There has to be something wrong with us!!!!
 
Thanks Barry for posting this! I really needed this info.

I was wondering what you meant by this statement?
Most painters on this step are to timid and really just wasting time wet sanding, as really not doing anything.

Do you mean with that statement that most arent sanding the clear with an aggressive enough grit like 600 or 1000 and then spending the large amount of time needed to move up in grits to get the coarse grit scratches out .......or do you mean that most newbes just dont spend enough time wetsanding?

Ive noticed for me that sanding with 1500 wet doesnt really do much as far as getting the "urethane wave" out. I experimented a bit and If I hit it first with 1000 then 1500......gets most of that waviness out.

And you are correct in your statement of newbe painters being "timid".....I was scared to death to try and start sanding my clear with 1000 before 1500.....fraid I was gonna sand through and then never be able to get those 1000 grit scratches out.
 
1000 grit is for taking out 800 grit scratches. there is a reason for so many grits . your suppose to use each one. only 600 will cut flat , after 800 your just removing scratches. use a squeegee and inspect your work. once it sanded leave it alone and move on.

edges and peaks need no sanding. blue tape is your best friend.
 
I have what I figure is 13-17 mils of clear on here the way I spray, even though there was no orange peel, if the car ever sees daylight, there will be urethane wave.
1000 and higher wet sanding paper will just not remove the urethane wave, 1000 can if you work yourself to death and then there will still be some wave left.
400-800 does a great job with the wave and in that step you make sure everything is out of the clear, so next step of wet sanding with next grit, is like Shine said just a transfer of scratches and does not take anytime at all.

Now for a normal job, say two coats on the wifes car door, sure just 1500 and buff, what I have found is like one guy on here, kept sending me pictures of fender after sanding and I kept sending back, saying sand more.

Most are worried about breaking through and I do understand that but if I did break through in the wet sanding state, its a matter of wax and grease remover, spotting in and go, so its the best time to screw up, if you need to screw up.
 
Barry,
I agree entirely on the not sanding enough. I would love to see pictures of the different steps such as after initial blocking, first guide coat, etc. I believe Shine posted a picture of a car he had blocked and mine never look like that. My thought is I am leaving too much filler, primer on the car in my attempts to get it straight and then I seem to be chasing imperfections around the panel.
Thanks for posting this.
Jim
 
[QUOTE='68 Coronet R/T;1117]Barry,
I agree entirely on the not sanding enough. I would love to see pictures of the different steps such as after initial blocking, first guide coat, etc. I believe Shine posted a picture of a car he had blocked and mine never look like that. My thought is I am leaving too much filler, primer on the car in my attempts to get it straight and then I seem to be chasing imperfections around the panel.
Thanks for posting this.
Jim[/QUOTE]

Barry great advice as always.. Totally did not sand enough when I first started doing this work.. Learned like you Jim, chasing imperfections in my bodywork..

Barry taught me years ago, that if you dont sand thru your first primer session and hit metal and bodywork everywhere using low grits, chances are the car will not be dead straight.. So I block like a madman on my first prime session and break thru to the previous primer sessions after that until I get up to fine grit like 320, then its sealer and paint..
 
remember the 5 inch magnifying glass i talked about . works real good for checking your progress with sanding.
 
Around here, we use the term flat, instead of straight. So think about what you are trying to achieve, and those 2 words will help. We always start colorsanding with 500, like Barry and Shine said, this is to get rid of all problems and make the surface FLAT...then start to get rid of the sanding scratches with progressive finer grits...it helps to sand a different direction with each change of grit so the bigger scratch gets totally sanded out and you can see that it is gone before moving up. These steps can take a poorly shot job and make it gleam FLAT. Just get the material on there in enough thickness and spend the time to get it flat, and the women will show you their cleavage in the reflection as they bend over to admire your work. Course, I'm too old for that sort of thing
 
Bondoking;1121 said:
. . .Barry taught me years ago, that if you dont sand thru your first primer session and hit metal and bodywork everywhere using low grits, chances are the car will not be dead straight.. So I block like a madman on my first prime session and break thru to the previous primer sessions after that until I get up to fine grit like 320, then its sealer and paint..
Click to expand...

I remember reading another post of Barry's where he sanded off something like 80% (IIRC) of the first round of primer. I have been just trying to remove the guide coat and probably remove only 10-50%
 
Now to me, I'm not a real fan of a guide coat, I'm not saying it don't work, but rarely do I use one and it may be for one problem spot, if I do.
What is a better guide coat then the original epoxy? I'm not a pro painter but, I figure if 80 percent of the primer is blocked off in first round, it should be straight, flat or something half way right.

I like the term FLAT, never thought about that before but to add to the flat statement as far as sanding clear, think about how we burn through clear, when buffing.
Usually it is trying to get out a defect or some peel and it is no different then sanding out a run, a lot of times the run will still be there and you burnt through next to it.

If totally flat, seems like it would be very hard to buff through clear, especially on edges, I sand my edges and I buff my edges, no taping here, for me and I thing the job just looks better that way.
 
I don't tape my edges either, though I will avoid sanding them too much with the coarser grits and get them flat with finer stuff like 2000. Probably I am giving up some "flatness" or straightness or whatever near the edges, but some habits die hard. I know I very very rarely ever burn an edge, if I do, it was because I had a brain fart with the buffer...
 
So let me see if I have this straight.
1. You spray two coats epoxy.
2. Repair any dents with filler.
3. Cover filler spots with epoxy.
4. Spray 2-3 coats of 2K

Now here's where I am a bit fuzzy.
5. Block this with say 220 until you're back down to epoxy???
6. Spray 2-3 coats of 2k block with 400??? down to epoxy??
7. Spray sealer
8. Wet sand sealer with 400 or 600 depending on paint?

Not trying to be a pain here but I have got to get a better system down cause this stage of the work is killing my time and I am not happy with my results.
 
Here is what I did on this car, three coats of epoxy sat a while and buzzed with 180.
Three coats of turbo primer and blocked with 180, almost all gone and then three more coats and blocked with 180, most was gone when done blocking.

Two more coats and 320 soft pad by hand and may have had one coat left of primer, due to time, i painted over the 320 primer and did not seal with epoxy.

This is just my way from old school, not saying its the right way.
 
Almost all gone?Do you sand off all the 2k down to the epoxy primer?WHY?Why not use a guide coat? Thanks Im still learning.Mike
 
The point of blocking is to leave the primer in the low spots, and take it away from the high spots. So up until the final prime (where you want a continuous unbroken surface), there should be plenty of sand-throughs, indicating that the film build is only staying where it belongs, instead of thickening the paint film unnecessarily. It's especially important to sand excess material off of edges, which will be prone to chipping if not well sanded in between priming sessions.
 
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