Can't get DS door gapped and aligned properly- gap is too big or body lines don't match.

[Schroeder]

I replaced a door skin and quarter panel and I can't get the door to line up without making the back corner gap go insanely big to about ½-⅝" or without making the body lines way off. Gap at the front of the door between the rocker and door will be about ¼" in this scenario, so the gap isn't consistent from front to back. If I drop the door down I can get a consistent ¼" gap between the bottom of the door. The top of the door will align with the place where it's supposed to meet the quarter panel. The door's two planes- top half and bottom half- will be planar with the mating planes of the quarter. The bottom face of the door will be planar with the rocker face. It'll make a pretty good fit overall.

However when I get this otherwise good fit the body line on the door is ⅜" lower than the body line on the quarter. It's a lot. I actually had another skin on this frame and warped it so bad trying to weld a filler piece on the bottom to correct this issue that it had to be scrapped. That's when I put this skin on, and it has the same issue, so this is attempt #2 with the door skin.

Because all the planes and gaps are good (or within reason so that I can cut and weld minimally) it seems to me that the body line on the quarter is in the wrong place. The entire rocker (inner, outer, and door post) as well as quarter, inner wheel well, and outter wheel well have all been replaced. I did everything I thought I was supposed to to maintain geometry. There are so many angles and flanges in different planes on the quarter that it is really locked in and hard to locate improperly I would think. Maybe it happened. Maybe AMD's panel has a couple differences from the factory panel, but AMD metal has suited me well so far. I do remember having to really push the bottom flange inward to get it on top of the rocker. The misalignment is hard to see in pictures since I dusted the panels white to keep them from rusting. I hope I did a good job explaining.

What should I go? Can I shift the line a little on the quarter and a little on the door with a small amount of filler? Do I need to cut out and relocate the body line on the quarter ever so slightly and finish with bodywork? I've been fighting this off and am and am now in need of advice.

The pictures below show the door aligned well with the exception of the body line. This is the position I'd like to work with since all is well except the body line. If I had to cut and modify the quarter body line I think that might be the best. Hit me with the advice. Thank you.

 

[Schroeder]

It looks like you will need to move the quarter body line but to be sure you should hang the fender and run a string front to back along the body line. That will tell you the whole story.

Mandatory backyard hack disclaimer here….

Don

Thanks for the reply, and absolutely if this is the direction I go I had planned to fit all the other panels first. If this is the route to go I will have a laser level projecting a line across the side of the car to get proper measurements across the entire assembled side of the car. In fact I did this last night on the portion assembled now to determine that the different between door and quarter body line is ~⅜". It looks like WAY more here and in really life, but it's ⅜" (10mm).

If the consensus is to cut and move the quarter body line I'll do so after fitting all the other panels together during my final fit that I'm trying to work towards now. Replacing the door skin and hanging the door is the first step of my final fitment and you can see how it's going!!! ‍

 

[MP&C]

Does the crease in the outer skin match up to the crease in the inner door? I've found reproduction parts to be rather inaccurate in some form or another, the folds that are there for the flange are suggestions at best. Initially I thought the door was sagging at the back and then I altered one of your photos, it appears the door crease is not straight, looks to fall off from the middle to the back end.. You may want to try my trick on site with a piece of string to see actually where the deviation is located. I would address any needed crease changes with hammer and dolly first

 

[Schroeder]

Does the crease in the outer skin match up to the crease in the inner door? I've found reproduction parts to be rather inaccurate in some form or another, the folds that are there for the flange are suggestions at best. Initially I thought the door was sagging at the back and then I altered one of your photos, it appears the door crease is not straight, looks to fall off from the middle to the back end.. You may want to try my trick on site with a piece of string to see actually where the deviation is located. I would address any needed crease changes with hammer and dolly first


View attachment 24323

I see what you're saying but if that is correct and I were to bring the rear of the skin up it would be equivalent to bumping the door up and the gap between the back corner of the door and the rocker would increase to be huge. It'd be the same effect as moving the rear of the door up at the hinges. Your method would work if before hanging the door I added material to the bottom flange of the door frame and the bottom rear edge of the door skin, but determining the amount needed when the two arent mates together is impossible. Any measurement with the two pieces separated would never be accurate.

 

[Schroeder]

Is this one of the F body doors with the horizontal impact reinforcement inside? Going to be tough sledding getting at the back side of the door body line.

It is. The skin is on. There's no way to get a dolly behind that body line now. This is the 2nd skin that's been on here. The easiest thing would be to add to the bottom of the door but that's what I tried with the last skin and I ruined it. This is the 2nd asin that looks the exact same way on the car, so nothing is wrong with the skin and the door. There's some over-arching fitment issue or issue with the quarter itself. @dhutton01 , I think moving the quarter body line is what I have to do. It's what you suggested above and where I was going down prior to posting here. I just thought that sounded extreme and insane, so I wanted to post here first.

 

[OJ86]

So I just had to deal with a very similar issue. All of the metal work was "done" on this car when I received it, half quarters and door skins. I got the door as close as possible and had to basically make the rest happen with filler. Am I proud of it? ehh not terribly, but it is what it is.

I leveled out the car and shot a laser across it to make the bodyline sharp.

 

[dhutton01]

When I read that you had to force the quarter in at the bottom my thinking was you distorted it, pushing the body line up. It’s been several years since I have hung quarters on a second Gen but I do remember them not being the best fitting parts.

But, you really do need to hang the fender before taking any action in my backyard hack opinion.

Don

 

[MP&C]

What I was suggesting was the crease going down the center of the door is off and not straight. Does it match the inner door's crease at the back? Using a hammer and dolly you could move the crease upward using off-dolly, if that was the case. Then filler. This would keep the filler to a minimum, always a good thing on panel parts that get slammed closed.

 

[OJ86]

Don is 100% correct. Put all of the panels on the car and get it all adjusted as good as you can before you start cutting and modifying anything. I have a lot of hours into the bird I'm working on only to basically come to the realization that its a pieced together turd and it will live its life with many many body shims! lol

 

[Schroeder]

So I just had to deal with a very similar issue. All of the metal work was "done" on this car when I received it, half quarters and door skins. I got the door as close as possible and had to basically make the rest happen with filler. Am I proud of it? ehh not terribly, but it is what it is.

Omgosh that's exactly what I have! That looks great. Do you remember how much filler you had to use and how deep it was at its thickest part? 3/16"-ish max? I could live with that as opposed to the alternative. I've given up on not needing any filler. I'm no expert and I wanna drive this thing.

@dhutton01 , yes, as stated, I plan on fitting the entire car up before addressing this issue, but since this is the 2nd go at it I'm certain it will need addressed. Im nearly losing sleep over this and had to come here and get direction for peace of mind.

@MP&C, ah I understand now. I can see if I can get a spoon behind it. There is some space behind the skin but not much. A large support structure runs right behind the body line for the length of the door.

 

[OJ86]

What I was suggesting was the crease going down the center of the door is off and not straight. Does it match the inner door's crease at the back? Using a hammer and dolly you could move the crease upward using off-dolly, if that was the case. Then filler. This would keep the filler to a minimum, always a good thing on panel parts that get slammed closed.

I know on mine I was able to massage the end of the door slightly enough that it helped. I am by no means a metal guy so you can read between the lines on that I probably did! ha! I had to cut and weld on both sides of the doors so they were easy to manipulate.

 

[Schroeder]

I know on mine I was able to massage the end of the door slightly enough that it helped. I am by no means a metal guy so you can read between the lines on that I probably did! ha! I had to cut and weld on both sides of the doors so they were easy to manipulate.

Thanks. I'll take that in consideration. These relatively large moves seem to be addressed by the "a little here and a little there method" meaning I'll use a little of everyone's advice: I'll try bumping the body line up towards the back without making it have a dive upward by hammering and dollying as much as possible with that annoying structure that's behind the skin. I'll use some raw filler and sanding work. I may have to cut and adjust the body line on the quarter. I'll hammer and dolly the frame/ skin assembly i have now to move the line a little as you've suggested. A little here and a little there.

This is why I come here. Thanks guys. As usual, keep the info going. I need it for the weekend ahead fighting with this door and panel fitment!!

 

[OJ86]

full discloser here, there is far more filler on the edges of these doors than I care for. But again if anyone knew the history of this car most here would have told me to push it out to the street, set it on fire and call the owner to come get it.

 

[Schroeder]

full discloser here, there is far more filler on the edges of these doors than I care for. But again if anyone knew the history of this car most here would have told me to push it out to the street, set it on fire and call the owner to come get it.

Well it sure looks good! Is the filler on the edge of the door like that of any concern? How thick is it there at the body line where you had the same issues I'm having? I have been trying to set the car up with weld filler so that I only need glaze on edges to avoid thick areas that will inevitably get bumped being in an edge and chip out.

 

[theastronaut]

Filler on edges has always said to be a no-go "because it can chip off" but it depends on which way you're adding filler to the edge. It's not a good idea to extend the edge of a door with filler to make a gap smaller; weld 1/8" tig rod to the edge instead or worst case use filler in the jamb side so the filler is fully supported. But it's ok to have a small amount of filler on the outside surface to make panels flush, like orangejuiced86 shows.

If you're banging the door or other edges against anything hard enough to chip filler you'd be damaging the paint anyway; it'll require making a repair either way. As long has the filler has support on the back side it'll be fine to use some filler on edges.

 

[OJ86]

Am I concerned,,,not terribly. If it gets chipped it gets chipped. I went round and round with the customer about this issue. When he dropped the car off we was already well north of 12K into it between 2 shops and here is what it looked like: You can see the rust coming through the primer etc....

Here is just an idea of what I was dealing with. You can see the gap issues.

I wanted to start with new door shells and full quarters be he didn't want to spend the money on a Formula car.

They put the half quarters on top of the old panels and it rusted out, they buckled the passenger fender strapping the car up to move it... Just a ton of issues that became my problem.

 

[OJ86]

And just to be clear, there is no filler "on the edge", just up to it. All the gaps were welded and cut into shape. I am not that much of a hack, lol

 

[OJ86]

On the passenger door once I got the body lines set up I could stick my hand through the gap to the rocker so I had to add some tig wire and make it. It was fully welded on the outside, rehung the door and painfully ground in the correct gap. then bodyworked the inside.

 

[OJ86]

I guess my main point on showing these pics is to assure you that you are not alone! So far I am not a fan of 2nd gens!

 

[OJ86]

Hell here is something funny. I have an antenna hole that shouldn't even be there. A hole that I suggested filling a few times, but the owner kept saying over and over that he wanted to keep the car original. Sorry, I am not a 2ng gen enthusiast so I don't know all the option codes, lol So I told him to start looking for an antenna that fits or find the one you took out!