Would you do this all over again?

Hello Dave, I think you have most everything you need except experience. I would tell you to find a shop to work at for a year, but with your attention to detail, I'm afraid you would be soured by the "quick, get it out!" process.

I understand where you are. About 5 years ago I moved my shop from Sacramento, CA to Idaho. I had to build my shop and a new "marketing vehicle" to let people see my work. I built a 1966 Mustang into a GT350 "tribute" to a high level and entered it into every car show around. People took notice and I attracted a customer who wanted "what I do". I have plenty of business now, but it takes some time and perseverance, which it sounds like you have.

One word of caution - never put out any second rate work. You need to be willing to work almost for free in the beginning. Don't worry about the money for the first couple years. Once you have a good reputation for quality work, you can charge what you're worth. If I can answer some questions for you, let me know and I'll send you my phone number.

Scott Brideau
Car Concepts
 
Shine, thanks for that advice. I'll be sure to follow it. You always have some of the best advice and anytime I quote you to my wife says you seem to have the same mindset as I do.

Professor, thanks for the info. I've got a 68 Chevelle SS396 numbers matching date coded correct, but that'll be my third one to do. My 9 year old has a 68 Firebird 400 that I'll be starting on first. Then my 3 year old has a 67 Impala 4 door sport sedan with a numbers matching 396. The wife signed off on both projects since they were "for the boys". As long as I'm in school my GI Bill pays me $1200 a month for BAH. So I plan on working part time at a shop while in school. Couple restoration shops around me that I've spoken with said they'd be happy to hire me for blocking and prepping because they can never keep guys on for that since the work is hard and sucks. Most those guys never spent time in the military though, got used to many hard sucky days.

I'm meticulous now about the work I do for my own vehicles and family. I've not paid a mechanic in about 3 years and have had zero problems with leaks, electrical failures, etc. It's amazing where a little knowledge and experience can take you. Now it's time to focus on paint and body.

Scott, I'll definately be calling you as all this unfolds in October. I'm in Israel right now on my last contract and then it'll be time to set up shop and get to work.

Everything you guys have posted has been a wealth of information and I check the forums daily and reread posts to study while I'm over here.

Thanks again guys.
 
never ever whore yourself out . start day one charging the industry standard. your better off sweeping your floors or working on your own project than working cheap. the busiest shop in town is the cheapest , it's also the first to fold.
 
Thanks Shine. I've seen you say that before which means you've probably seen it a hundred times and the results. I'll work a second job before I produce cut rate work at cut rate prices.
 
Dave, to answer the question as to if you should go to a paint tech school, I say no way.

I tell kids that ask all the time, just go to a shop and hire in as a sweeper, garbage hauler and if you do good you will be a helper in no time and get paid to learn.
Or spend $20,000 for school and when you get out hire in as a helper.

You have the business degree and the rest you will learn by doing--best way.
Take a lump, when you make a bad decision and move on and forget about it but never make the same mistake twice and learn from the mistake.

Looking at what you have done, my personal opinion is you would be wasting your time in class.
 
IMO, in this field, there is nothing better than On the Job Training.

Like barry said you can sit in a school room and pay 20k and still have no "real world" experience. You learn the basics there yea, but that is easily learned in the shop by watching others as a helper or sweeping the floor. You learn the most, when you screw up. LOL.

It is how I started. I would hire a guy that didn't know jack squat over someone who just spent a year at wyotech.

Just my own personal opinion...and not trying to bash anyone who went to school or has a different opinion. I have friends that went to those schools, only to come back and get a job not in the field because they think they deserve the same pay as a 10+ year vet only because they spent all that money and went to a school.
 
I honestly don't know why these tech schools don't offer apprenticeship programs. I would gladly take on a student as a gofer/janitor etc. while they were in school learning. If they stuck with it, they could become an apprentice before graduating and be able to draw on both the school side and real life to help them advance.

I created my own apprenticeship back in 1984-5 as a recent auto service tech school graduate (how familiar) working as a lot boy in the local body shop. Interested in what was going on, I would turn a 5 gallon pail over and sit on it to eat my lunch while watching the metalmen work. It didn't take long for one of them to put me to work, and before long I was doing small jobs with minimal supervision.
 
Thanks for the help guys. My GI Bill will pay for school, tools and pay me $1200 a month to attend school. I've already got all my paint guns although I know you can always have more. I was leaning towards automotive suspension and engine repair over auto paint and body because I thought the same thing. Between getting some OJT and screwing with my own stuff, I think I'd get more out of that than listening to people who are producing the futuer workforce of MAACO. No offense to any MAACO guys if they're on here, but I've seen the work they produce and I honestly don't know how anyone can live with themselves when they let something half ass leave a shop with their name on it. Chevy offers an apprenticeship program for ASE certification where once your meet your normal school requirements (which all my credits will take care of) they put you in the school and then days not in the school you're at the dealership. I'm rebuilding my 68's 396 now and it's a hell of a lot easier to work on than my wife's 07 SRT8 hemi or my 06 Toyota for that matter. So I'd like to get an understanding of modern engine systems for my own knowledge and I think the suspension training would really help when working on the restorations too. Classes don't start until January and enrollment doesn't start until November so all this information is really helping me out.
 
Well gentlemen here's the update:

I left the contracting world back in October of 2012 and after speaking with the instructors at a tech school 45 minutes from my home, I enrolled in their auto refinishing program. One instructor owned a shop for 20 years and then produced custom bikes for another 5. He is big on hammer and dolly with minimal filler and really stresses prep work. I've seen his work from a 67 numbers matching convertible camaro that he painted 12 years ago, to daily drivers and other show cars as well as his bikes. His work is great. My other instructor was a body tech and painter for Mercedes. He too has been at it for over 20 years and has some exceptional work. I'll be finished with the course in about 3 weeks, with an associate degree in automotive collision repair. Which means with that and a dollar I can buy a Coke. However, I've had some great instruction in proper MIG and torch welding (no TIG yet), hammer and dolly work as well as body filler, glazing and putty. The in's and out's of painting, which I had no idea all the factors like paint gun travel speed, distance, angle, etc. affect a paint job. How to mix paint properly and adjust gun travel based on conditions you weren't prepared for. Sprayed bases, clears, metallics, pearls and saw where my weaknesses and strengths are without breaking my bank learning the hard way. Also won a grant from 3M so they hooked me up with a few new guns and various tools.

I think one of the best experiences I've learned is seeing how this new generation of kids (I'm 37) work ethic sucks. Not only are most lazy, they just don't care and have no interest in being the best they can be in their chosen endeavor. Nothing sucks more than spraying clear on nice and smooth, only to have some jackass come behind you and dry spray the second coat because they're just there to be there and then hope you can melt in that third coat and then fix it with some 2500 and cutting and buffing. Then to have the same jackass not clean his sandpaper and you get to try to cut and buff sand scratches that go the length of the panel.

All in all, it's been a good experience. My instructors have a pulse on the good shops and the chop shops in the area and will help place me in a shop that is known for quality work where guys have spent over 10 years at the same shop so I'll have some mentors. I think that alone was worth the year in school. Otherwise I may have went to a shop and not known the difference and just became a hack.

Thanks for all the advice, even though I'm not posting on here much, I frequent the site almost daily and read and study from you guys. Most FNG's run their mouth too much when all they have to do is practice over and over. Just like shooting 10,000 rounds will make you a better shooter; running 500 plug welds or spraying 1,000 hours will make you a better welder and painter and there is only one way to do that and that's get at it. I'll post up pics of my projects as I come at them so you can see there is still some shiny terds being dropped out of tech school.
 
Last edited:
Thank you Chad. I'll be in touch with you when it's time to paint a color that SPI doesn't carry.
 
i've said this before and it is still true today . " #1 reason for small business failure is treating the money like it is yours " . if you can not get past this i can assure you that you are facing a huge failure .

- - - Updated - - -

and for the record vBulletin sucks !

- - - Updated - - -

and for the record vBulletin sucks !
 
shine;32441 said:
i've said this before and it is still true today . " #1 reason for small business failure is treating the money like it is yours " . if you can not get past this i can assure you that you are facing a huge failure .

- - - Updated - - -

and for the record vBulletin sucks !

- - - Updated - - -

and for the record vBulletin sucks !
Click to expand...



I tend to treat my money as the business's most of the time.. lol.. I don't think that is the best way either. Good thing I like these old cars!!!

and yes it does!!
 
Shine I totally agree with you. Pay yourself a salary and the rest goes to the business, too many people seem to miss that concept. That and always save at least 10% of what you get. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Well guys it's been awhile and here's an update. During tech school I started working at a collision shop. They did driver restorations on the side. After a couple months of collision the owner let me handle a 70 Cutlass that needed patches. I didn't like how they wanted it handled but I was under their roof. So I wound up cutting out the rot and backing it with 2011 Honda Accord metal. The glassing the low spot and smoothing it out. It came out nice but like I said, I knew it wasn't the right way. After that one, he kept on doing the older stuff. Another 70 Cutlass, 68 Camaro, 86 Cutlass, etc. Then the owner purchased a 70 Chevelle for himself and had me start on it. Still taking some short cuts. Well then a good restoration shop owner was visiting and saw my fabrication work on the 70 Chevelle and gave me his info. Put in my notice and started there today. Working on a 66 Mustang Fastback at the moment and doing it the right way. Better pay and a better atmosphere. I love it.

Now, when I started this I left military contracting. Well now that ISIS is all over Iraq I feel like I should help out again. So while I was in school I started recertification to go back overseas. So now I'm in a respected shop that I love and am about to have to leave it. Cool thing is the owner is fine with me working overseas and then coming back to the shop during my home time and helping with builds.

Now I'm in school for Small Business and Entrepreneurship so that when I launch my shop in a couple years I'll know from a business standpoint what I need to do.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the info and advice throughout the forum. I still frequent it and told my new boss to check out SPI because he was talking about switching primers.

Thanks again.
 
That hard work and determination will pay off! Hope ISIS gets snuffed out for good soon.
 
Thanks guys. There's two things I enjoy in this world...working on cars and working in a combat environment. I'm just blessed enough to be able to do both and have the support of my family in the process.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top