Why can I spray Euro not UC?

M

mitch_04

Learnin'
I can always get Euro to lay perfect at 4:1:1 but UC I can't. Always has some peel or just isn't quite as smooth as I'd like. The Euro looks like glass out of the gun. I'm using an LPH 80 and LPH 400, up to 30 psi, tried all sorts of pressures and fluid settings. Euro will just lay out even if I don't hardly try.

Any suggestions?
 
Should add, 60 gallon 5hp Caire compressor, high flow fittings everywhere, 1/2" air hose to the gun. Also have a roughly 40 gallon reservoir plumbed inline.
 
I have the same problem. If I reduce UV by at least 10% I can get it to lay nice. I chalk it up to spraying Euro style clear my entire life I guess. Old dog new tricks?
 
More like new dog no tricks for me! :p

I've read about reducing it, and have though about trying it. I'd be curious to know how similar Euro at 4:1:1 is to UV at 10%. I thought maybe because Euro sprays out better and is reduced that I didn't have something set quite right, maybe I'll just have to switch to Euro.

It's hard for me to give up without figuring out the problem, if someone else can do it I should be able to....eventually! I've thought about trying out a Sata 5000RP, my buddy might buy one and maybe it would suit my spraying style better...
 
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I may be wrong but UV is a higher solid clear than Euro, especially factoring in the reducer used in 4:1:1. Higher solids require slightly changing your technique. The higher the solids the more overlap is needed on each coat. Somewhere around 75% overlap on each coat. Sometimes it just takes time using a clear and playing around with your settings until you find your sweet spot. If reducing it helps you get it to lay down better then do so. No shame in that. You could also trying using a very small amount (less than 1oz per 32 sprayable of polyurethane retarder to help it flow a little.
 
I can get it lay pretty flat BUT I do have to reduce it a bit (@10%) , use slow activator and do as Chris says - 75% overlap
 
The ladder scale in the reducers does help.
Euro at 4:1:1 should be just about exact with Universal but you have a larger ladder scale with the reducer.

I have a new shop in Midwest had used 2021 forever he said and wanted to try the Universal to upgrade.
Four days on phone with adjustments we made some progress he also uses the LPH 400 1.4 like I do.
This got so bad on the last call, I said this clear just not going to work in your shop, I give up as he was still getting orange peel.
Then he said i never adjusted the wall as it worked with the 2021 and I said where is it at? he said 75 lbs.
Could be the problem, you and I are wasting a lot of time and how about I just give you a refund?
Left it with text me a copy of invoice and I will credit you or the jobber.
SO next night he calls and said my wall went to 135 and sprayed a bumper two coats and an hour later the guys in shop stood around the bumper for 10 mins just not believing how nice it looked and I had mixed clear left over.
 
Well that's probably my issue as well. But I figured it was me lol or my old spay gun.
 
I have my wall cranked up too :( and I always use the slowest reducers and activators

I may have to keep playing with it until I'm out of UV then decide.
 
So many factors come into play when dialing in a clear. The gun, the activator, the reducer but mostly the operator.
I have been using a Tekna Copper 1.4 tip and getting great results but on the '55 Chevy truck I couldn't get the clear to lay down right. Switched to my Iwata LPH 400 silver tip which I used for years prior to the Tekna and everything just came together.
Next project, same clear and the Tekna worked great. The only thing I can figure was that I was missing something the first time around but still don't know what it was.
 
I've found the weather has a significant effect on how it goes. I've been setup pretty good on a couple occasions, only to go back at it a few days later and be out to lunch.
 
I spray both and I had a little trouble early with Universal. Every painter is different, every gun is different, every plumbing/filter/regulator is different and then all of that changes with temperature and humidity if you are trying for near perfection every time. Which I do, but good, great and exceptional only exist, perfection does not. Anyway, for me, Euro2020 sprays like a lot of clears on the market. To me, it "was" easier for me to get the "look" straight out of the gun. I do get the "look" out of Universal. I find that Euro can be applied a little heavier and gun tighter to the panel and Universal likes the pattern not as tight to the panel with more overlap. I go faster, with greater distance with a 75-80% overlap and get the look I'm after. We're all different, you're going to have to play with it. But once you get it dialed in, there's no going back.
 
Ok, I have searched through every past thread and have been using UV with LPH400, that's where I've started with all my settings. However, I'd like some current recommendations as well, maybe newer forum members have newer insight?

If the LPH400 users could post their wall & gun pressures, fluid & fan turns, and overlap/distance... It would be a huge help!
 
i always reduce universal 10% BUT i am using the 2.1 version. that i think needs the 10%. way back when i was using the regular voc universal i never really reduced that. its been a long time since i sprayed it but i do remember the euro laying out really nice though.
 
Here are some LPH400 settings from others on here that I saved a long time ago:

LPH400LV - Clear:
Inlet pressure - set at 16 to 20 PSI with trigger full back and air flowing
Material control knob set at 3 to 4 full turns open from the closed position
Fan Control knob - set to achieve an 8 or 9 inch spray pattern at a 6 inch distance.
Material control knob - set at 3 to 4 full turns open from the closed position
Spray distance - 6 inches or less
Spray speed - Fast
Pattern overlap - 50 to 60 %

Iwata LPH 1.4.
Wall regulator set at 100 or more.
Fan wide as can without center blowing out.
4" from panel.
Fluid 2.5-3 turns out depending on speed of painter.
Air 26-32 psi at the gun depending on air lines and compressor

Iwata LPH 400LV 1.4 tip
22 psi
Fan - 1/4 turn back from full open...no real reason for the 1/4 turn back other than habit...I never turn knobs against the stops...
Speed...about a foot per second
Fluid knob - about 1.5-2 turns from bottom (following Barry's gun setup guidelines)
Slow (885) clear activator
4-5 inches from surface

iwata lph400
fan wide open - turn in 1/2 turn
fluid 3 -3 1/2 turns out
pressure 20 -24 lbs
this is a starting point , from there you adjust to your speed and distance from panel.
this is for uv clear.
 
Jim C said:
i always reduce universal 10% BUT i am using the 2.1 version. that i think needs the 10%. way back when i was using the regular voc universal i never really reduced that. its been a long time since i sprayed it but i do remember the euro laying out really nice though.
Click to expand...
Why did you switch to the 2.1 universal? How do you think it differs from regular universal?
 
Not sure really. When it first came out i tried it and liked it. Its typical of 2.1 products that they are a little more syrup like. I cant really put my finger on the exact difference but it is different. I think the low voc solvents arent as aggressive so it doesnt dissolve the resins as much making for what seems to be a thicker material when i really dont think it is actually thicker. I know that makes no sense haha.
 
Think about this, the heaviest solvent in 4000 is 8.25 lbs er gallon.
In the 4100 the heaviest is. 10.2 lbs.

They do evaporate and when gone exactly the same stuff. But spray different.
 
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