What could be used instead of melted lead for full rear quarters and hiding seams ?

Outlaw;n78309 said:
I certainly like the idea of welding the seam closed after panel bonding, but Im pretty sure I would get a ghost line..
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You can't weld within 2" of panel adhesive.
 
Well there went that option. I wondered about that, then I saw an option for "weld thru seam sealer" so I thought maybe there was a"weld thru panel bonding". I had not researched it yet. And, I would still have the risk of the weld causing a ghost line due to increased thickness of metal in the seam the entire width of the cab in a very exposed area.
 
Guess I misunderstood what you meant about weld over seam. Most epoxies can release their bond at around 400 degrees.
You either hot weld or co​ld weld {adhesives}.
Each method has it's arguments for advantages & disadvantages.
For something like an older truck roof, I'd much prefer to weld. Butt welds are least likely to ever shadow.

BUT;;;;; if you're less confident in your fitting & welding skills, 3-m 8115 automix is stronger than most people imagine. With that method ,personally I'd do a skim coat layer of filler with aluminum content to minimize shadowing & finish with regular filler.
 
Two seams involved, One is the top seam where the cab roof attaches to the back of the cab wall (above the window). The other seam is below the window and consists of a long butt weld. I am going to do a series of spot welds on the butt joint. I have the fitment completed and very accurate .023 space between the panels.


The upper seam is where I am considering the options of panel bond vs welding. So far, I have not been able to figure out a way to duplicate the spot weld in the original assembley. There is very little clearance to get a spot welder or use a mig to spot weld those flanges together. The only options I see are panel bond and seam sealer, or, welding the seam shut on the outside and using filler to finish it smooth.
 
MP&C, I see you used the butt weld clamps on your project. Did you ever feel the gap they leave is too wide for butt welding? I am assuming you used .030 wire to fill in? Im working on a seam at .023 but Im afraid I will burn thru if I widen the gap any wider. The butt weld clamps I have are pretty close to .050. I really like the way they work and keep the metal flush, but wish they were thinner.
 
Outlaw;n78346 said:
MP&C, I see you used the butt weld clamps on your project. Did you ever feel the gap they leave is too wide for butt welding? I am assuming you used .030 wire to fill in? Im working on a seam at .023 but Im afraid I will burn thru if I widen the gap any wider. The butt weld clamps I have are pretty close to .050. I really like the way they work and keep the metal flush, but wish they were thinner.
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I typically use them for fitup only and move them out of the way when it comes time for welding where they will butt more tightly together.
 
My brother in law suggested I weld the seam solid where the panels come together and fill whats left with lead. Guess thats another option. Is leading a good option with less risk of ghosting? I did a little bit of research on leading so I'm going to add to this post. It sounds like there is acid involved with tinning prior to leading. That sounds like a conflict with SPI Epoxy?
 
if you cut that lap joint out, make a metal patch, fully weld it in without warping the crap out of everything then you should need very little filler in that area so there should be nothing to ghost at that point or even fill with lead. nothing wrong with lead but i dont think the lead system of today is actually lead. its something else that is safer. i have never done it myself so i cant say. the acid would just be a flux of some sort so the surface doesnt oxidize and the lead will bond and flow onto the steel. that can just we wiped and cleaned away when your all done.
 
I hear whay your saying Jim. I actually thought about straightening the flanges on the stock roof where it mates with the flange on the patch panel flang, then straighten the flange on the patch panel. This would allow an overlap that could be scribed and cut to fit. This would eliminate the need for two seams and leave only one seam. Of course that is assuming the flanges can be bent and straightened without too much stress to metal that is going to be heated for butt weld.
 
Any of the flux or tinning butter has some acid in it. Once the area is tinned you can wash the area with baking soda and water to neutralize the tinned area. Do your lead and then rewash the entire area again with baking soda and water. Leading isn't easy and their is always a chance of potential problems from the flux.

I use lead in certain cases but the full welded seam is a better bet.
 
Thanks Brad. Verdict is still out on which option I am going to pursue.
 
Never solder an open seam-I know they did this on the assembly line and it usually lasted a long time but I've also stripped down and repaired old soldered joints that were failing because acid got trapped in the seam and corrosion started. If you weld the seam solid acid can't work it's way into the seam. Practice a lot first before you solder on a project-knowing how to clean and tin the area properly is the first step-don't overheat it. If the solder doesn't flow and stick during the tinning process then start over. Once the tinning is done you can apply the filler layer of solder. Neutralize the acid and remove the tallow/paddle butter/motor oil before any filing is done. I'm not an expert at it but my stuff holds up. First car I did solder work on was a 69 Chevelle SS at the age of 19-I had replaced both quarters with new GM and I soldered the sail panel seams just like original....but both seams blistered from trapped acid a few months after completion-I vowed never again to solder an open seam. I think some of the old solder masters of years ago knew how to flow the solder and acid right through the seams.
 
Outlaw;n78283 said:
This is the top seam on a 56 Ford F-100 where the roof sheet metal meets the back of the cab sheet metal. Original seam was spot welded and seam sealed. Its going to be extremely difficult to get in close enough to spot weld. I have been considering panel adhesive to glue the two flanges together. Once I get it clamped, I will remove the excess and let it cure. Then I would apply seam sealer over the joint to look original. My other idea is to use a weld thru seam sealer between the two flanges, clamp it, and fill the groove with weld. I am assuming that alternative would result in a ghost line due to the weld being thicker than the sheet metal on both sides of the weld.
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For those cab seams I would- weld it, lay the cab on it's firewall, tape the seam closed from the inside, tape the exterior closed along the sides, fill the seam with spi epoxy from the center of the back so it floors the seams completely, and let it cure for a few days. Remove the tape, remove any excess epoxy primer, primer the exterior with epoxy and apply seam sealer.
 
Bob, If I weld the seam, there wont be anything left to seam seal. Using .023 or .030 wire and connecting the dots will almost flush the seam with the cab metal. Im not sure if your suggesting welding the seam from the inside (spotting the flanges) or welding it on the outside where the seam originally showed as in my attached photo, Im talking about the top seam here, not the one on the bottom. The bottom seam will be butt welded. The top seam is the one that was originally spot welded and seam sealed. Spot welding it now is going to be difficult becasue of limited access.
 
Just another thought to add in here. Have an upcoming project of permanently bonding the factory 83 el camino bedrail trim , then filling smooth. See it done with a few methods & have seen ghost shadowing come & go with hot temperature.. You basically have 2 rounded edge 90 degree joints that leave you a little recess area to fill in. Pretty much the kind of joint guaranteed to shadow somewhat..

So I finally got with the local evercoat field rep to explain & get his product recommendation. He suggested Fiber T​ech as the based filler, followed by a final coat of something such as metal glaze since it's not a finish coat product.. I have used the fiber tech product a few times years ago & it likely could be the best choice for a layer of filler over a bonded seam or a welded area to minimize the possibility of shadowing.
Just something to look into & consider.??
 
Outlaw;n78893 said:
Bob, If I weld the seam, there wont be anything left to seam seal. Using .023 or .030 wire and connecting the dots will almost flush the seam with the cab metal. Im not sure if your suggesting welding the seam from the inside (spotting the flanges) or welding it on the outside where the seam originally showed as in my attached photo, Im talking about the top seam here, not the one on the bottom. The bottom seam will be butt welded. The top seam is the one that was originally spot welded and seam sealed. Spot welding it now is going to be difficult becasue of limited access.
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I was assuming you were planning to plug weld the flange. No access to the top seam with the inner panel in place?
 
When the panel is in place, I cant access it to plug weld. I could do a half ass job of it, but it would not be like it should. Any spot welds would be done at an angle. Thats why I was considering filling the seam from the outside with weld and then using lead or a stranded fiberglass product to fill the void and hopefully avoid the ghosting.
 
looking for a strong filler to smooth some of the exposed frame on the coupe, tried the metal 2 metal aluminum filled stuff, its pretty good and really hard. Actually got the metal fuzion from pep boys. I think I would consider it as a replacement for lead.Sands ok in 20 minutes, let it sit overnight and its too hard.
 
Wonder how it would perform for eliminating or minimizing ghosting compared to stranded fiberglass.
 
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