Universal Clear Layering

[sprint_9]

Ok, this will be a little out of the ordinary, but I want to ask.

Im getting into 1:24 scale model building and want to incorporate Universal Clear into my builds, there is a great thread on here with some model work and how nice Universal Clear works. My specific issue is in order to decal I need a clear glossy surface, I was considering using Universal for this, however, once I have all of the decals placed I would like to clear over the entire model again. The issue is I cant really do much sanding after the decals are on, maybe lightly hitting it with some 3000, but I dont really even want to do that.

So my question is, in a non automotive application can Universal be cleared over itself without sanding after the first layer has been placed a few days up to a week prior? Is that even possible to consider in an indoor display type of application?

 

[Barry]

Yes, done on a lot of different things.
The million-dollar question is the use of the item.

 

[sprint_9]

Yes, done on a lot of different things.
The million-dollar question is the use of the item.

Awesome, thanks Barry.

 

[Jim C]

best way to do this without sanding would be to clear then wait 16hrs or so, apply decals then clear again. clear would be plenty cured but not totally out of recoat window. if not and you wanted to wait can you scuff the clear with maybe an ultra fine scotchbrite? i have cleared and put alot of different types of decals on over the years and i havent found anything that had to go over a 100% gloss surface.

 

[MikeK]

What is your surface ? Plastic, metal?
I understand applying over a smooth surface for ease of application but I do mine right after paint. Just keep the area Wet until you like the placement. Just depends on the Decals because their All Different. Some slide for minutes and some literally stick the moment it touches unless you keep it soaked.
I use Gold scuff pads for Clear blends. About as 'gentle' you can get or a worn Gray one which I've used previously on Clear only. And even the Gold pads need a little break in by manipulation first.
If your project is for Displaying and light handling,
Clear right over the Decals. The Solvents will bite in and when Cured,is fine unless like my cars and the owner decides to let the kids Race it and play bumper cars.

 

[sprint_9]

I will do some experimenting, I've had a train wreck with my base so I've not made any progress. I like the idea of lightly scuffing the surface for a little extra insurance.

The models are plastic and will only be for display in a cabinet with minimal handling

The last time I painted anything of importance was the tailgate of my pickup, it felt like I was creating a huge mistake applying body filler right to the body before I had epoxy down Some of these things really stick with you.

 

[MikeK]

Yes I've had to come up with a whole different game plan going Small from Big but I've really Learned a Lot actually about things that never concerned me.
Biggest concern is Adhesion because you ain't putting no 80-180gt scratch on Anything so your more into Chemical than Mechanical adhesion.
Dawn and Easy Off are your 2 Best friends.
A good initial Light scrub down with the gold or gray scuff pad cut into small manageable pieces with Dawn is an excellent start breaking the slick surface of the plastic and exceptional cleaning prodduct. Just be mindfull of the proud Detailing.
I prefer spray can 1k acid etch primer for filling minor molding divots and imperfections degassed into a small cup applied with a brush. It really bites into the plastic well. The Chemical rather than mechanical thing.
800gt IS my 80gt. Corse as you ever go really and not very often. Usually 1000-1500.
I drench spray the preped piece with Spi 700 cleaner right before primer or color basing and dry with compressed air which will "soften" the plastic because it contains Acetone and you generally Reduce your Products used thru the Airbrush and the combination of the 2 gets you a decent Chemical adhesion.
The main "complication" is with Dried Base,subsequent colors,metallics and applying Decals and Clear adhesion. Because scuffing is Not an option once Decals are applied or a Metallic.
Yes,It gets Interesting to down right Complicated and even though it's "just a piece of plastic",
You Still want to do the Best Job Possible reguardless.
And, no I didn't forget.
You have the Option to basically Erase the Entire paint job.
Soak it in Easy Off and Only Easy Off because the cheaper store Brand doesn't Work.
The only paint left on it will be the Acid etch primer usually.

 

[sprint_9]

How would switching to Production Clear affect the nature of the questions asked here?

I am curious because the cost for what I am doing simply isnt going to make sense in the long term. The main issue is the activator as I will get only a couple projects completed before it goes bad. Switching to Production Clear would allow me to buy a smaller half pint of activator as it goes bad with age. I just wont be using that much volume, but would really like to stick with SPI products.

 

[MikeK]

Haven't used Production but considered it for the same reason BUT,

Considering my gallon can of Universal is from 2010 or earlier and leftover after opening when I quit and the Activator is the same age but only just opened around October of last year and works fine is what I have been using for 3 years now. Actually my Original 2010 Activator was stored opened too and outside of being slightly thick still kicked fine but had to be Reduced to spray when I started back again in 2020. Finally got too thick but Never 'seeded' what so ever.
I literally shut the door on my Paint cabinet and 10 years later reopened it and outside of some paint being unusable Everything,especially SPI products, has been usuable.
Would I risk using them to make a living with and my reputation?
No.
Would I paint a plastic model or something which is not to be abused and look Great ?
I do practically Everyday.
Your Actually getting the Point now.
MONEY.
I already have everything and it's Paid for. No way I could afford to Now just to paint from a hobby standpoint. Unless your just Rich and can spend it on such.

'Thing about 'longevity' with These type Products is exactly what Barry stated many times,
A Consistent Storage Temperature........,
and a Reasonable one of 70 degrees or so is IMHO the Reason why mine still work. Because the Proof is IN my cabinet and Shop.
The other contributing factor is Not leaving the Products OPEN any Longer than NECESSARY and resealing Securely. I've honestly Never used a deoxygenating gas sprayed in before closing containers and some believe it helps and maybe does.
Outside "influences" are generally why Products go bad from bad containers and lids to owner neglect from leaving the lid off overnight or not sealing it.
I also just opened an unopened Gallon of Black Epoxy which I have no idea how old it actually is but minimum 13 Years. See for yourself here's both can stickers. After talking a wooden stick and literally digging it up from the bottom to separate stirred and within 15 minutes acquired the Product you see in the cup.
Mixed with the part B from the can pictured and reduced 20% and used a cheap chip brush to paint a prepped metal 3" square fence post.
Functioned just like always or brand new product I got the day before. Amazing.
Just Saying

 

[sprint_9]

Good to know, my test last night came out good, so for the time being I can just use up my left over product.

 

[MikeK]

As long as the Activator doesn't have "seeds" which if it does is obvious because they look like tiny seeds which I think is the Iso's that have absorbed moisture but someone else can clarify. And you will have "trash" in your work or worse.
It's not really Air that is the problem but moisture in the Air. Deoxygenating gas is any Inert,Dry gas like Nitrogen and some welding gas's like Argon,Carbon Dioxide and such.
What exactly are you painting?

 

[sprint_9]

What exactly are you painting?

 

[Idoxlr8]

I lay decals on top of smooth base all the time, you really don’t need a shiny surface. Adding two layers of clear, especially 2k urethane is going to kill a lot of surface detail and panel lines. If you use a decal solvent like Microsol or the like you shouldn’t have any issues getting decals to lay down properly on any surface.

 

[sprint_9]

I lay decals on top of smooth base all the time, you really don’t need a shiny surface. Adding two layers of clear, especially 2k urethane is going to kill a lot of surface detail and panel lines. If you use a decal solvent like Microsol or the like you shouldn’t have any issues getting decals to lay down properly on any surface.

What do you guys use for base on your models? I need to find something different.

My original plan was to go right on the base, but Ive had a terrible time with this base, I used bottle Tamiya and while it spays nice and looks nice it is really soft. The picture doesn't show it but the white is sanded with 2000 grit, I want to smooth that over as well as get something a little more stable for handling during decaling.

I might just spray one coat of Universal reduced down about 25 percent, or I might spray some 1k lacquer clear I have and then put Universal over all of it. I haven't totally decided yet, but I'm leaning towards Universal as it lays down really nice with what I tested last night.

Idoxlr8 your work is truly outstanding.

 

[Idoxlr8]

I’ve used everything at some point. Acrylic, Laquer, enamel and auto bases.
Tamiya paint is great if you shoot it with Mr Hobby Leveling thinner. You can use this stuff in laquers as well. It flashes slower allowing the paint to smooth out. The Tamiya is available as a laquer as well. It sprays better and provides a harder surface than the acrylic. Again, go easy on the Universal or your model will start to look like a shiny acrylic blob.

 

[sprint_9]

I've been using the Mr Hobby leveling thinner, it is good stuff like you mentioned. I experimented with some Mr Color lacquer and it was just a little more durable the the standard Tamiya acrylic lacquer, I assume Tamiya's straight lacquer would be close to the same.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[MikeK]

The biggest problem hobby painting has is the Work Place.
Solvent based products are Not "user or surrounding friendly" especially a catalyzed 2k Clear and cleaning Everything with Solvents.
I only use Tamiya enamel and lacquer for details with a brush and it's a Mack Virus 444-0.
I've read and tried everything from Tamiya thinners to 90% alcohol to spray it and just cannot get the results and control I do with automotive base which is affordable in RTS ab quantities.
4 oz will paint a Lot on the Small scale. Or touch-up bottles or pens. Many options.
It's called Retarder. Likely what is in Mr. Hobby stuff. Same thing and reason why we use it in Clear for better flow out.
BTW idoxlr8, I picked up a hp-c plus for 120.00 from Ali Express and the 10 day shipping time was worth the wait. Outstanding piece.

 

[MikeK]

Tamiya acrylic enamel?
Yup.
You can get away with a little enamel but using a urethane clear,it's automotive base's or maybe the Tamiya Lacquer on that much real estate. Spray bomb enamel takes weeks to dry enough to recoat or Clear and even then can rewet the enamel and wrinkle to hell.
It Definitely wasn't the Universal but it rewet the Tamiya and the second coating of Universal trapped the first Universal coats solvents which soaked the enamel even more. Jmo.
Likely why the hobby Boys use Future Floor Wax or such on their Tamiya.

If you Really want to use a 2k Clear, you'll Have to use Solvent Bases if you want to have Fun instead of Frustration. Many Affordable options for it. I just ordered some from Gravity Paints in 1oz bottles shipped from Spain for less than 40 bucks.
As for Reducing Universal, I've done 1:1:1 often. But I'm not hammering it on either,without issue.
Possibly someone who uses the Tamiya can tell you different about this but my personal experience with Enamel and Urethanes is they aren't Friends.

 

[MikeK]

Only time I've ever crazed base was with hok kk koncentrate and binder or inter coat that was not flashed long enough between multiple coats and usually about the 3rd or 4th coat or the next day.
What are you applying the products with? Exactly?

 

[sprint_9]

Base is Tamiya Acrylic applied with an airbrush.

I've deleted my post above as it was geared more towards the clear reacting with the clear. After thinking about it more and looking at it I don't believe that was the case.

I was kind of planning on switching to a different base before this, now with these issues it's an easy decision.