Thinking of getting an orbital and trying the Norton system

Arrowhead

Arrowhead

Oldtimer
I went to a trade show held by my local autobody supplier. They had reps and demonstrations of most of their products.

I'm going to be cutting and buffing this T Bird soon (hopefully) and then I plan on painting my hot rod this spring.

I talked w/ Presta and also Norton and was intrigued by their complete sanding/polishing system. I'll have to buy the 3/32 orbital, but was impressed w/ the finish left by the 3000. I know it's a large investment upfront, but considering I'll have two cars to do it's not so bad.

Anyone using the Norton products?
 
Ive used all the systems. Used norton exclusively for a few years. Dont get a 3/32 da. They are a waste, gimmick and totally unnecessary. The normal 3/16 orbit size is what you need for all your sanding, even finish sanding. There is no advantage to a small orbit. Not sure what the system was you saw. Norton has the q260 finishing film. I used that since it came out in both 1000 and 1500. When it was first released is was a great paper then they made some changes to it now it sucks and its the worst one out there now. Best finishing film out there and cheapest is eagle yellow film. Hands down the best. Last 2 to 4 times longer than 3m or norton and cuts way faster. For the 3000 i started with nortons pink film. Basically a copy of 3m trizact with no foam on the discs. That stuff works but pigtails like crazy. The 3m 1/8" foam trizact discs are the way to go for that grit. Works great, no pigtails. I am pretty much sanding and polishing every day. Ive got my system pretty much honed down with the right materials that work really well together. I just did a 78 vette and did the complete sand and buff job in 5.5 hrs.
 
thanks for the heads up

my local supplier has 3m and norton, so they should be able to hook me up with some of it. I know I can probalby get it cheaper online, but they really take care of me there and I want to do buisness with them.
 
Use the Norton 3000 wet, you don't need a bunch of water just enough to lubricate, another trick to stopping the pigtales from clogging the paper and gouging your paint is take bar of ivory soap and rub the paper down good before you start and once in awhile while sanding-it works. I've used the Eagle 3000 film and I agree with Jim it beats everything out there, the 3000 abrasive is mounted on thin vinyl like backing. The 3/16 orbit DA works faster than the 3/32 but there is a good reason to buy another DA just for colorsanding- if you can't clean your old DA so that it's perfectly CLEAN there will be a chance that some spec of dirt or grit will get dislodged and end up between the sandpaper and your paint-this can ruin a paintjob faster than you can imagine. I keep a DA bagged and stored just for colorsanding when needed. Another decent colorsanding system is Abralon by Mirka if you do the initial cut by hand, their cushioned discs go to 4000 grit.
 
oh yes, i agree with bob. i also have a dedicated sander for wet use. i use any of my others for the dry 1000 and 1500 but a completely separate one for the 3000. bob, only thing i use eagle is the 1000 and 1500. for the 3000 i use the 3m trizact foam discs. no matter what the grit i always get pigtails when i wetsand if its not on one of those foam discs.
 
So "in theory" I could use my regular DA if it was clean enough? On the other hand, I know it will take a little longer but is it maybe safer as a newbie to use the 3/32 stroke so I don't get myself in trouble?
 
yes you can use your regular da just blow it out really goo before you begin wetsanding. the 3/32 is about 4 times slower. you are better off just slowing the speed down to half on the da you have now. also with any type of colorsanding always use a soft interface pad on the da.
 
Jim and Bob,

You guys are such a wealth of information. I will be getting into color sanding and buffing soon, and I REALLY appreciate the info! It is unbelievable how much money and time I save by reading threads like this one.

What type of block do you recommend for color sanding? What is the general technique (should I use an X pattern like with primer)?
 
You may want to slow down your speed with a DA.
I find it works better at about half speed when colorsanding
wet or dry.
 
what jim said! i always run 1/2 speed.

for a block, i really don't block my final clear. i think bob uses a piece of plexigalss. i have pieces of corian made into blocks, basically same thing.
 
i put a clear fuel filter on my spray hose for sanding. you would not believe how much crap comes out of the water. i'm on a well and get all kinds of trash. in town i got rust all the time.
 
strum456;5976 said:
Jim and Bob,
What type of block do you recommend for color sanding? What is the general technique (should I use an X pattern like with primer)?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, when sanding with fine grits like 1000 and above,
you're not straightening but meerly sanding the previous scratches away,
or leveling the orange peel. At that grit what block you use will have
little effect on actually straightening the finish so it doesn't matter
much what type or how long a block you use. A soft or hard one is
going to do about the same. And a long one won't help much.
(block that is-for you gutter minded painters LOL):D
 
Jim C;5953 said:
Ive used all the systems. Used norton exclusively for a few years. Dont get a 3/32 da. They are a waste, gimmick and totally unnecessary. The normal 3/16 orbit size is what you need for all your sanding, even finish sanding. There is no advantage to a small orbit. Not sure what the system was you saw. Norton has the q260 finishing film. I used that since it came out in both 1000 and 1500. When it was first released is was a great paper then they made some changes to it now it sucks and its the worst one out there now. Best finishing film out there and cheapest is eagle yellow film. Hands down the best. Last 2 to 4 times longer than 3m or norton and cuts way faster. For the 3000 i started with nortons pink film. Basically a copy of 3m trizact with no foam on the discs. That stuff works but pigtails like crazy. The 3m 1/8" foam trizact discs are the way to go for that grit. Works great, no pigtails. I am pretty much sanding and polishing every day. Ive got my system pretty much honed down with the right materials that work really well together. I just did a 78 vette and did the complete sand and buff job in 5.5 hrs.
Click to expand...

Could you PLEASE do a write up on all your steps. I'm looking for a good setup to stick with. I'm doing to much experimenting. If you could give what pads & compound, plus the sanding steps it would be GREATLY appreciated.
 
ok each step is done with a da and a soft interface pad. first sand with 1000 finishing film. as mentioned before i use the eagle stuff. 3m works as well but more expensive. once surface is sanded smooth i will sand with 1500 finishing film, again eagle or 3m. one all the 1000 grit scratches are out i then switch to the 3m trizact 3000 foam pads. after that is done its time to start buffing. from this point you can use wool or foam pads. i usually use wool wherever i can. for compound i use the 3m performance compound or the meguiars 105. they are really about the same thing in different bottles. for compounding, wool i run at about 1800 rpm, foam 1300 or so. with these compounds you should be able to get the finish to 98% perfect and swirl free. it should look basically like you are done and don't even need to polish. once you get it to that point switch to a soft foam pad like the black 3m waffle pad and the 3m polish. the 2 are color coded and made to go together. for polish i reduce the rpm to about 1000-1200. just an added note. if you rather wetsand for your 1500 step, meguiars makes 1500 trizact foam pad discs just like the 3m 3000 ones. 3m makes them obviously but distributed under the meguiars brand and not 3m. 3m has them but not on the foam pad and again i have problems with pigtails on anything wet and not a foam disc.
 
Jim C and Jim C,

Thank you both for explaining.

One more question: "The Perfect Paint Job" as well as many on this site like to put on 3 coats of clear, block it with 400-800, and then apply several more coats, lightly wet sand, then buff.

This sounds like a lot of extra work, so what is the advantage of this pocess?
 
A much flatter finish with less urethane wave in it. Saves a little time on colorsanding as well.
 
Does a soft block or DA with a soft pad work for this process, or do I need something longer and harder to get out urethane peel?
 
Jim C;6016 said:
ok each step is done with a da and a soft interface pad. first sand with 1000 finishing film. as mentioned before i use the eagle stuff. 3m works as well but more expensive. once surface is sanded smooth i will sand with 1500 finishing film, again eagle or 3m. one all the 1000 grit scratches are out i then switch to the 3m trizact 3000 foam pads. after that is done its time to start buffing. from this point you can use wool or foam pads. i usually use wool wherever i can. for compound i use the 3m performance compound or the meguiars 105. they are really about the same thing in different bottles. for compounding, wool i run at about 1800 rpm, foam 1300 or so. with these compounds you should be able to get the finish to 98% perfect and swirl free. it should look basically like you are done and don't even need to polish. once you get it to that point switch to a soft foam pad like the black 3m waffle pad and the 3m polish. the 2 are color coded and made to go together. for polish i reduce the rpm to about 1000-1200. just an added note. if you rather wetsand for your 1500 step, meguiars makes 1500 trizact foam pad discs just like the 3m 3000 ones. 3m makes them obviously but distributed under the meguiars brand and not 3m. 3m has them but not on the foam pad and again i have problems with pigtails on anything wet and not a foam disc.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU. Very much appreciated.

So you sand with the 1000 and 1500 grits dry right? Also, do you have any tips for making sure the previous grit scratches are gone? Thanks again.
 
I will use a da and a soft pad only on compond curves like fenders on older cars but for anything flatter, the harder the block the better. Use 400-600.800 is too fine. The process is really do different than blocking primer.
 
Finishing film is always dry. Trizact is always wet or damp. I just use a spray bottle. No need for running water over the surface like with wet/dry paper. As for scratches, no. That comes with trial and error.
 
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