Standard filler or Slick Sand?

They want to pretend it's the only product you need. To be fair, I have blocked and and stepped out grits all the way to 600 and refinished poly primer directly with single-stage before with satisfactory results on a DHL van. So they are not wrong under certain circumstances. I would tend to believe that poly could be epoxy sealed and yield a good result even on a high-end base-clear job, but have never tried it.
 
Slick Sand gets this skin that feels about as hard as concrete. I start sanding it with 120 grit to break through that a lot easier, and then I will go back to 180 or 220. It really makes it easier if you start with the 120 first.
 
Lizer said:
Slick Sand gets this skin that feels about as hard as concrete. I start sanding it with 120 grit to break through that a lot easier, and then I will go back to 180 or 220. It really makes it easier if you start with the 120 first.
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Yeah, that's a really good point. Once you get that outer skin removed, it's much easier to do what you want with it, grit wise. I think most poly putties and plastic fillers share this same tendency, we want to break through them with a coarse grit or even a "cheese grater" if you are an old timer.
 
I've never used Super Build or Slick Sand but after reading the TDS on both it says Super Build is DTM. No requirement for epoxy on bare metal.
 
RustyJ said:
I've never used Super Build or Slick Sand but after reading the TDS on both it says Super Build is DTM. No requirement for epoxy on bare metal.
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Maybe on little break thru but on whole panel id still epoxy first. When you spray the super build you can feel the epoxy like characteristics in the air of you are wearing a t shirt. If that makes sense
 
Last I remember reading g-2 instructions, they said less than quarter sized sand thru area can be acceptable, not whole area. Even quarter sized area would fall under ok, but not best strategy.
 
RustyJ said:
I've never used Super Build or Slick Sand but after reading the TDS on both it says Super Build is DTM. No requirement for epoxy on bare metal.
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crashtech said:
Don't believe everything you read!
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RustyJ said:
Well I can only guess the company chemists must be mistaken.
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Just because two products are DTM or claim to be DTM doesn't mean that everything else is equal between the two. Adhesion, corrosion protection being the main two. Using the Super build DTM on collision repair is different than using it as your base on a $100k restoration. And don't always believe what you read. The DTM aspect is a marketing ploy. We had the Evercoat guys at our Shop a few years ago singing the praises of the DTM poly primers, telling us they were just as good as epoxy. I took the liberty of a little test a couple of days before hand when we found out they were coming to the shop, (we already had some of the Evercoat DTM) and sprayed a couple of pieces of bare metal. One with Evercoat DTM and one with SPI epoxy. When he was telling me adhesion was just as good as epoxy I showed him the 2 samples I sprayed. Two coats of Evercoat DTM and two coats of SPI black epoxy. Followed all instructions on their TDS (evercoat) and prepped the SPI sample the recommended way with 80 grit on the DA. Had no idea what would happen but showed them to him and proceeded to bend in the middle both samples. SPI epoxy nothing happened other than the metal bending. No cracking or loss of adhesion at all. Evercoat DTM sample when I bent the piece in the middle cracked once I got to 45 degrees of bend and separated from the metal.

In production collision repair none of this would matter but for high quality work, DTM is not the equal of epoxy. It is like most DTM products a compromise. With SPI Epoxy there are no real compromises. That is why it is so preferred for high quality work.

There is a video on youtube called SPI Epoxy torture test. Worth the watch.
 
Thanks for the detailed response Chris. As I stated I've never used it and after reading that you two guys have real world experience with this stuff I have no interest in trying it now. I'll stick to epoxy on bare metal first.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Just because two products are DTM or claim to be DTM doesn't mean that everything else is equal between the two. Adhesion, corrosion protection being the main two. Using the Super build DTM on collision repair is different than using it as your base on a $100k restoration. And don't always believe what you read. The DTM aspect is a marketing ploy. We had the Evercoat guys at our Shop a few years ago singing the praises of the DTM poly primers, telling us they were just as good as epoxy. I took the liberty of a little test a couple of days before hand when we found out they were coming to the shop, (we already had some of the Evercoat DTM) and sprayed a couple of pieces of bare metal. One with Evercoat DTM and one with SPI epoxy. When he was telling me adhesion was just as good as epoxy I showed him the 2 samples I sprayed. Two coats of Evercoat DTM and two coats of SPI black epoxy. Followed all instructions on their TDS (evercoat) and prepped the SPI sample the recommended way with 80 grit on the DA. Had no idea what would happen but showed them to him and proceeded to bend in the middle both samples. SPI epoxy nothing happened other than the metal bending. No cracking or loss of adhesion at all. Evercoat DTM sample when I bent the piece in the middle cracked once I got to 45 degrees of bend and separated from the metal.

In production collision repair none of this would matter but for high quality work, DTM is not the equal of epoxy. It is like most DTM products a compromise. With SPI Epoxy there are no real compromises. That is why it is so preferred for high quality work.

There is a video on youtube called SPI Epoxy torture test. Worth the watch.
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Man. Awesome
 
crashtech said:
...we want to break through them with a coarse grit or even a "cheese grater" if you are an old timer.
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I have no experience with filler but I will need to use it and I am getting ready to start buying tools and materials.
- When initially shaping the heavier fillers, is it best to use a rasp/cheese grater when the filler is starting to glaze over or coarse grit sandpaper?
- What would be a good hobbyist level rasp if applicable or the correct grit of sandpaper to use?

-----
Emil
 
Evil_Fiz said:
I have no experience with filler but I will need to use it and I am getting ready to start buying tools and materials.
- When initially shaping the heavier fillers, is it best to use a rasp/cheese grater when the filler is starting to glaze over or coarse grit sandpaper?
- What would be a good hobbyist level rasp if applicable or the correct grit of sandpaper to use?

-----
Emil
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"Cheese graters" or Surform files really aren't a thing anymore afaik, but I will rarely break one out if I do an embarrassingly thick application of filler. Mine are probably a decade old, they are half-rounds like this:

www.stanleytools.com

10 in SURFORM® Half Round Regular Cut Replacement Blade | STANLEY

Surform blade for a fine finish
www.stanleytools.com www.stanleytools.com

BUT, typically guys will skip the file and go straight to 36 or 40 grit to remove spreader marks and get the filler prepped for the next grit which is typically 80.

The thing about the file is you have to time it just right, there's really only a few minutes that the filler will be the perfect consistency for filing.
 
I learned from someone here to wipe the sticky glaze off green filler with a thinner rag before sanding, pretty much eliminates paper clogging.
 
Thank you both for the info.
I found this video on YT and it seems to match the advice you have provided. Is there something in the video I should be skeptical of or is it all sound information?

Body Filler The Easy Way, Stop Working So Hard!!​


crashtech said:
"Cheese graters" or Surform files really aren't a thing anymore afaik...

...BUT, typically guys will skip the file and go straight to 36 or 40 grit to remove spreader marks and get the filler prepped for the next grit which is typically 80.
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- Do I wait for it to fully cure or dry before hitting it with the 36/40 grit?
- Should I use a DA with the heavy grit paper, or perform all filler shaping by hand?

Slofut said:
I learned from someone here to wipe the sticky glaze off green filler with a thinner rag before sanding, pretty much eliminates paper clogging.
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I am unclear on the following:
- By "thinner" are you referring to generic paint thinner or a specific compound, i. e. Naphtha, mineral spirits, Etc?
- what do you mean by "green" filler, color, or state of ripeness/curing?

-----
Emil
 
Evil_Fiz said:
- Do I wait for it to fully cure or dry before hitting it with the 36/40 grit?
- Should I use a DA with the heavy grit paper, or perform all filler shaping by hand?
-----
Emil
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I don't really want to review the video, maybe someone else can invest the time to do that. The initial hit with coarse paper depends on what stage you are at and how thick the filler application is. Initial heavier applications are best sanded while the filler is cured, but not fully. This would be the stage where it's too hard to file but but is still giving off plenty of smell. Later, thinner applications ar best sanded once fully cured.
 
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