Patch panel fab or buy decision

Chris is right, you need a proper sandbag, not grandmas old purse. A 1” thick rubber sheet to can be invaluable for small sharp work and other details.
 
1_Wild_Cat said:
An chance of finding a cut-off from a clean western car?
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I did get a bite on my WTB, and it's definitely better shape rust wise than mine, but not dent wise. :(

I can probably get this for 2/3 the cost of the AMD panel but I think it will be a lot more work to get it ready.

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The dents in that highly visible body line concern me, I'm worse at dolly/hammer than I am at welding. ;)

It looks to me like whatever made that round dent on the right has caved the panel in a bit, the red line
I added across there sort of highlights it.

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Here's a close up. Also looks to be bit of rust across the top edge.

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Good time to learn. You have full access to the backside. You can work those out easy. Even without much tooling. A piece of hardwood cut down to fit in that recess from the backside and a hammer would work out those dents. Or pay someone to work them out for you. This is a far far far better option than you trying to make it. I can't emphasize that enough.
BUY IT!:)
 
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Chris_Hamilton said:
Good time to learn. You have full access to the backside. You can work those out easy. Even without much tooling. I piece of hardwood cut down to fit in that recess from the backside and a hammer would work out those dents. Or pay someone to work them out for you. This is a far far far better option than you trying to make it. I can't emphasize that enough.
BUY IT!:)
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If you are confident enough in your ability to drill off and replace this, fixing those places will be a piece of cake. The really hard crease dent on the left looks like the metal has quite a bit of stretching. Don't be afraid to actually split the metal along there and then work it back into shape then weld up the split. I can see a repair there being nearly metal finished, not by me as I'm more of a blacksmith than a coach builder. Good luck, I agree with Chris Hamilton , buy this!
 
I would never cut/split something like that. Work it out any number of ways. A good aproach for a novice would be to fashion a piece of hardwood slightly smaller than the recess and then gently tap it out. You can use a piece of steel plate to then refine it from the front with a hammer . If a spot is high you can use a propane torch to shrink it. That approach would require almost nothing in tools.
Your in Raleigh I see Rob. I'm about an hour and a half from you. Bring it up to me one weekend and I'll walk you through fixing it or fix it for you.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
I would never cut/split something like that. Work it out any number of ways. A good aproach for a novice would be to fashion a piece of hardwood slightly smaller than the recess and then gently tap it out. You can use a piece of steel plate to then refine it from the front with a hammer . If a spot is high you can use a propane torch to shrink it. That approach would require almost nothing in tools.
Your in Raleigh I see Rob. I'm about an hour and a half from you. Bring it up to me one weekend and I'll walk you through fixing it or fix it for you.
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That's super kind of you to offer Chris! I am working with the guy now, hopefully will get it in the mail soon.

I like the idea of making a piece of hardwood to work that with. I plan to give it a go, but at the first sign of trouble you might find me on your doorstep (beer in hand). Will post back if I can get my hands on it.
 
You should be aware too that making some kind of dip or form in metal is not going to make it take shape perfectly and then the rest of the metal is fine. The The rest of the panel will become distorted and requires shrinking or stretching, depending on what you've done to it, to relax the metal and make it all lay out flat again. Wray Schelin is a metal shaping masterclass and has a lot of great videos on YouTube to check out as well.
 
Lizer you are aware that we are talking about the panel in the above pics right? :confused: Working out those dents will not cause the rest of the panel to become distorted. It will return the panel to it's original shape. In the middle where its sucked in a bit from the dent. Working the dent out will bring that area back out. All the wood chaser is for is to help bring the panel out. By tapping it with a hammer it becomes the hammer in an area where the hammer will not fit. It will require a little hammer and dollying on the outside to help bring the area that is high back down. No shrinking should be neccesary. If there is it would only be on the vertical face of the panel. But again I don't think it would be using the thousands of dents I've worked out in my life as my reference.

Gents, if Rob brings it to me I'll take some pics of the process. Those are simple dents and it would only take a couple of hours to get them out close to perfect.
 
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For anyone reading this thread that don’t possess years of body working skills I recommend the following two YouTube channels...
Fitzee’s Fabrications
Elin Yakov’s Rusty Beauties

Both show excellent how to content in making patches and more from simple tools and techniques. Highly recommended...
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Lizer you are aware that we are talking about the panel in the above pics right? :confused: Working out those dents will not cause the rest of the panel to become distorted. It will return the panel to it's original shape. In the middle where its sucked in a bit from the dent. Working the dent out will bring that area back out. All the wood chaser is for is to help bring the panel out. By tapping it with a hammer it becomes the hammer in an area where the hammer will not fit. It will require a little hammer and dollying on the outside to help bring the area that is high back down. No shrinking should be neccesary. If there is it would only be on the vertical face of the panel. But again I don't think it would be using the thousands of dents I've worked out in my life as my reference.

Gents, if Rob brings it to me I'll take some pics of the process. Those are simple dents and it would only take a couple of hours to get them out close to perfect.
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Thanks Chris, I'm hoping it doesn't come to that.

While it's old school compared to YouTube videos, if you want to understand the process of working damage back out of a panel, I personally found the metal bumping chapters of this book to be extremely useful.
Particularly the "Fairmont Method" of understanding how the damage happened and working it backwards.

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Good solid info in that old book. (first printing was 1936) That will put you on the right path.:) You will need a dolly that can get in there from the backside. Like I said before a piece of steel plate will work well as a dolly for that area if you don't have a dolly that will. You still want to bump out as much as you can before you start dollying.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Lizer you are aware that we are talking about the panel in the above pics right? :confused: Working out those dents will not cause the rest of the panel to become distorted. It will return the panel to it's original shape. In the middle where its sucked in a bit from the dent. Working the dent out will bring that area back out. All the wood chaser is for is to help bring the panel out. By tapping it with a hammer it becomes the hammer in an area where the hammer will not fit. It will require a little hammer and dollying on the outside to help bring the area that is high back down. No shrinking should be neccesary. If there is it would only be on the vertical face of the panel. But again I don't think it would be using the thousands of dents I've worked out in my life as my reference.

Gents, if Rob brings it to me I'll take some pics of the process. Those are simple dents and it would only take a couple of hours to get them out close to perfect.
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I am talking about one of his original questions pertaining to should he fabricate patches or buy a replacement piece.

I want to make it clear that fabricating a patch with some kind of form or shape to it is more than just pounding the area without any effect to the rest of the metal.
 
Lizer said:
Wray Schelin is a metal shaping masterclass and has a lot of great videos on YouTube to check out as well.
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Wray is known for metal shaping and I had never noticed any of his metal working videos show up when on youtube except this one called "car door restoration".
Lizer, I mean no disrespect to you, but Chris has shown in the past that some of Wray's methods of metal shaping are not the best, and you can judge for your self about his metal working skills in this video as he trys to remove spot welds. To me, his methods and actions show a lack of knowledge of metal working, such as prying against the outer door skin. He just doesn't leave me with a feeling of someone finesseing the metal, or someone who knows whats going to happen before they begin.
 
He’s got another video where a patch gets welded into the top of a fender right next to a flange. As one would expect, the heat from welding caused the adjacent part of the flange to shrink and leave a dip in the fender. Multiple attempts to fix/bump that low area failed as he never did fix the CAUSE. He never did convey to his audience (this was an ideal teaching moment) or show that he grasps the concept of planishing a weld to remove the shrinking effects. One can go through just about any of his videos and find other blunders that support the fact he is no master at metalshaping. He can metal finish dings to beat the band, but a master metalshaper he is not.
 
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