Hi all! New to the forums! A few questions on freshly bead blasted bug!!
6
'67 VW Sunroof
Yes sir! The way he explained it to me is:
It's coming off the chassis and he is bolting it onto a rotisserie. He will bead blast (glass beads and water) the body, fenders, hood, decklid, sunroof, etc....
Then he will apply a "coating" that will prevent flash rusting up to 3 days. He said I need to get it home and immediately clean, dry, and epoxy prime everything ASAP!
Is 1 part vinegar and 3 parts water not a good idea to scrub everything down and thoroughly dry out if the question? Just getting a little shirt on time. Fall is around the corner. I wanna get the ep on it so I can start on bodywork!! Haha!
It's coming off the chassis and he is bolting it onto a rotisserie. He will bead blast (glass beads and water) the body, fenders, hood, decklid, sunroof, etc....
Then he will apply a "coating" that will prevent flash rusting up to 3 days. He said I need to get it home and immediately clean, dry, and epoxy prime everything ASAP!
Is 1 part vinegar and 3 parts water not a good idea to scrub everything down and thoroughly dry out if the question? Just getting a little shirt on time. Fall is around the corner. I wanna get the ep on it so I can start on bodywork!! Haha!
shine
Member
if you spray epoxy over that crap he's putting on it everything from there up will be a waste of time . i think you need to let the blaster and the painter handle this and use their products and stay away from spi. when it fails and it will you will blame spi for it. you've been given good advice but keep asking the same question to get the answer you want to hear. barry's products are not to be used over acid of any kind including vinegar .
anotheridiot
Member
[QUOTE='67 VW Sunroof;40280]Yes sir! The way he explained it to me is:
It's coming off the chassis and he is bolting it onto a rotisserie. He will bead blast (glass beads and water) the body, fenders, hood, decklid, sunroof, etc....
Then he will apply a "coating" that will prevent flash rusting up to 3 days. He said I need to get it home and immediately clean, dry, and epoxy prime everything ASAP!
Is 1 part vinegar and 3 parts water not a good idea to scrub everything down and thoroughly dry out if the question? Just getting a little shirt on time. Fall is around the corner. I wanna get the ep on it so I can start on bodywork!! Haha![/QUOTE]
Its finding out what he is using. For all we know, he might be reducing down a gallon of WD-40 and spraying it on to prevent rust. Thats gonna evaporate in three days. I think he is doing it more for his application than yours, the fact he is using water in the mix.
There was one cleaner barry recommened, sounded like it had phos in the name, osphoro? if you are old school with the acid primer, then old school cleaner for painters was TSP or Trisodium phosphate, that for painting walls in the house. that probably has a little in it. But there was a whole neutralization step needed before spraying the epoxy.
Anything on the metal that is between the metal and the epoxy is what they are trying to avoid here. They want the epoxy on the metal with nothing in between.
It's coming off the chassis and he is bolting it onto a rotisserie. He will bead blast (glass beads and water) the body, fenders, hood, decklid, sunroof, etc....
Then he will apply a "coating" that will prevent flash rusting up to 3 days. He said I need to get it home and immediately clean, dry, and epoxy prime everything ASAP!
Is 1 part vinegar and 3 parts water not a good idea to scrub everything down and thoroughly dry out if the question? Just getting a little shirt on time. Fall is around the corner. I wanna get the ep on it so I can start on bodywork!! Haha![/QUOTE]
Its finding out what he is using. For all we know, he might be reducing down a gallon of WD-40 and spraying it on to prevent rust. Thats gonna evaporate in three days. I think he is doing it more for his application than yours, the fact he is using water in the mix.
There was one cleaner barry recommened, sounded like it had phos in the name, osphoro? if you are old school with the acid primer, then old school cleaner for painters was TSP or Trisodium phosphate, that for painting walls in the house. that probably has a little in it. But there was a whole neutralization step needed before spraying the epoxy.
Anything on the metal that is between the metal and the epoxy is what they are trying to avoid here. They want the epoxy on the metal with nothing in between.
crashtech
Combo Man & Mod
I've heard of some additive put in the water for those wet processes. It was in a thread on here a good while back. I can't remember if Barry tested it or not. I would not employ that process without testing it first!
I feel better about a dry blasting process myself, then getting it back right away to clean and prime it myself without anyone adding anything to the mix. A tiny bit of flash rust is actually less of a problem than some of the coatings designed to prevent it.
I feel better about a dry blasting process myself, then getting it back right away to clean and prime it myself without anyone adding anything to the mix. A tiny bit of flash rust is actually less of a problem than some of the coatings designed to prevent it.
6
'67 VW Sunroof
I text the guy and said it was preferred that he didn't use anything when he was done with the blasting...
I thought the water helped cool the mix that is sprayed thus preventing any warp age that you see in regular sand blasting? Isn't that the reason for using the water/glass mix (aside from the fact that it is supposedly more environmentally friendly)
I'll just call him and have a list of questions to ask all at once.
Shine, can you tell me what the answer to the question is that I want to hear? Not sure what you meant by that comment....
I was brought to this website from word of mouth from another website. (The member was very well known and very experienced so I took his advice to check out SPI) it seems the product is unbeatable for the price and the quality seems up to par amongst competitors. I am far from a professional and am just here to learn all I can before doing this job.
I thought the water helped cool the mix that is sprayed thus preventing any warp age that you see in regular sand blasting? Isn't that the reason for using the water/glass mix (aside from the fact that it is supposedly more environmentally friendly)
I'll just call him and have a list of questions to ask all at once.
Shine, can you tell me what the answer to the question is that I want to hear? Not sure what you meant by that comment....
I was brought to this website from word of mouth from another website. (The member was very well known and very experienced so I took his advice to check out SPI) it seems the product is unbeatable for the price and the quality seems up to par amongst competitors. I am far from a professional and am just here to learn all I can before doing this job.
anotheridiot
Member
For the most part, I am pretty water just keeps the dust down. I know using coal slag mixed with metal known as black beauty is pretty hot when it hits my glove, so I guess it could have cooling involved. I have never heard of water and glass mix. I have seen water and baking soda and that just runs down the drain with guys that come out to your site with a truck.
Media is what prevents warpage. Plastics, walnut shells are the best to use on thin metals, glass is right there and usually creates the least dust than using sand. Plastic is low dust, walnut shells is lotsa dust, glass is pretty low, but it depends on how fine the glass gets. I start with crushed glass because I eventually end up with glass beads and then I dont have to buy that too.
The guy runs a business using it, so I am sure he has his reasons and knows its advantages. We just see the disadvantages I guess. Last thing I want with a freshly blasted steel is water.
Media is what prevents warpage. Plastics, walnut shells are the best to use on thin metals, glass is right there and usually creates the least dust than using sand. Plastic is low dust, walnut shells is lotsa dust, glass is pretty low, but it depends on how fine the glass gets. I start with crushed glass because I eventually end up with glass beads and then I dont have to buy that too.
The guy runs a business using it, so I am sure he has his reasons and knows its advantages. We just see the disadvantages I guess. Last thing I want with a freshly blasted steel is water.
crashtech
Combo Man & Mod
I wish I could find the old thread on this process. Blasting wet is mainly to keep down dust. Warping is not caused by heat in this case, it is caused by "micropeening." The abrasive particles are like a million tiny hammers and they can stretch the surface when they strike it. The wet process might not be so bad, but the guys that do it put something called Holdtight 102 (or something like it) in the rinse water. I don't know if Barry got around to testing it with the epoxy or not. It's really best to call and ask if he does not post here about it.
shine
Member
blast medias go by MOH . measure of hardness . this is what creates an anchor pattern. soda is 2.5 , sand is 7.5+ . as for water on blasted metal i wash everything with dawn soap. flash rust only happens on clean metal . every big compressor has oil contaminates coming through the hose . the only way to remove media is rinsing with water .
type of media has nothing to do with warpage nor does heat . but if you put one of the snake oil acids on it to prevent rust for an extended period of time get ready for problems. those who promote this stuff are not painters and have no clue to it's effects in refinishing. i do not care what is done in aviation nor industrial settings . this is an automotive refinishing site for users of spi products.
go read the threads on the perfect paint job or especially the what every painter should know thread .
type of media has nothing to do with warpage nor does heat . but if you put one of the snake oil acids on it to prevent rust for an extended period of time get ready for problems. those who promote this stuff are not painters and have no clue to it's effects in refinishing. i do not care what is done in aviation nor industrial settings . this is an automotive refinishing site for users of spi products.
go read the threads on the perfect paint job or especially the what every painter should know thread .
Mustang408
Member
shine;40296 said:
What then causes warping? Air pressure?
If you or anyone else has the money to get started, you can buy one of those blast units with compressor, and be in business in no time at all. So in short order, you might be the one drumming up business to do exactly what you are about to pay for right now. Experience is not necessary. Just think about that. They don't sell a franchise, its just a piece of equipment. Buyer of services beware.
Personally, I wouldn't let anyone blast my outer panels, regardless. My concern would be the profile that the media leaves on the metal and what damage that might cause, and if it doesn't leave a profile, then it has to be sanded anyway.
And for the inside, the owner of a competing company of dustless blasting, told me that he would not have the interior and bottom sides of a car done because the water packs the media in the seams and its hard to get it out. You do not want to just leave the seams packed with crushed glass, expecially wet glass. The glass media size is not much different than blasting sand.
[QUOTE='67 VW Sunroof;40234]The media is a glass bead and water mixture. The vehicle will not be driven as it is going to be trailered and will not have a chance to allow the sand to "fall out of crevices"....
[/QUOTE]
Personally, I wouldn't let anyone blast my outer panels, regardless. My concern would be the profile that the media leaves on the metal and what damage that might cause, and if it doesn't leave a profile, then it has to be sanded anyway.
And for the inside, the owner of a competing company of dustless blasting, told me that he would not have the interior and bottom sides of a car done because the water packs the media in the seams and its hard to get it out. You do not want to just leave the seams packed with crushed glass, expecially wet glass. The glass media size is not much different than blasting sand.
[QUOTE='67 VW Sunroof;40234]The media is a glass bead and water mixture. The vehicle will not be driven as it is going to be trailered and will not have a chance to allow the sand to "fall out of crevices"....
[/QUOTE]
Mustang408
Member
Interesting "Rules for Sandblasting" I have no idea if the info is valid but it would be nice to have a resource like this for a novice.
6
'67 VW Sunroof
Wow, GOOD reading there Mustang408! I appreciate the link. I read the whole article. Blast material shouldn't be round but angular, do not exceed 35psi, do the thumb test-if it doesn't pass use lexan, don't go back and forth, don't start on hood, fenders, doors, don't get closer than 9"....Black magnum appears to be better for hoods, doors, deck lids but wasn't listed on that site under abrasiveness scale.
I think too much. With soo many variables to go wrong, I always have been paranoid with all that I do. (Or have done)
So, at this point, I have ordered the SPI epoxy primer, and the activator, and the 2k regular primer.
I guess I should start working with my da and 80 grit? How do you guys get into the little tight areas like door hinge areas and corners?
Also, I ordered the black ep. My thinking is I will use a lighter filler then the grey 2k primer to be able to "see" my layers when we are blocking it. Is this a good idea or does it even matter? Haha..
Chevman: I don't have $70k which is what this guy spent on his tow behind machine. I'm sure it is overkill for what I needed done. I'm sure it's a pretty good business but leery of environmental concerns (more $$$$)
I think too much. With soo many variables to go wrong, I always have been paranoid with all that I do. (Or have done)
So, at this point, I have ordered the SPI epoxy primer, and the activator, and the 2k regular primer.
I guess I should start working with my da and 80 grit? How do you guys get into the little tight areas like door hinge areas and corners?
Also, I ordered the black ep. My thinking is I will use a lighter filler then the grey 2k primer to be able to "see" my layers when we are blocking it. Is this a good idea or does it even matter? Haha..
Chevman: I don't have $70k which is what this guy spent on his tow behind machine. I'm sure it is overkill for what I needed done. I'm sure it's a pretty good business but leery of environmental concerns (more $$$$)
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B
Bob Hollinshead
Buy a handheld gravity feed spot sandblaster for the tight areas, also stock up on some clean-n-strip discs, rolocs, wire wheels. The majority of the stripping on the larger areas can be done with a heat gun and a razor blade scraper, sanded, or removed with chemical stripper. Or if your compressor is large enough borrow or buy a small pressure pot blaster for the jambs.
[QUOTE='67 VW Sunroof;40316]
Chevman: I don't have $70k which is what this guy spent on his tow behind machine. I'm sure it is overkill for what I needed done. I'm sure it's a pretty good business but leery of environmental concerns (more $$$$)[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean that you should do it yourself, you just have to be leary of who is doing it, and how much experience they have. The guy you are talking to may not know much more than you do.
Chevman: I don't have $70k which is what this guy spent on his tow behind machine. I'm sure it is overkill for what I needed done. I'm sure it's a pretty good business but leery of environmental concerns (more $$$$)[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean that you should do it yourself, you just have to be leary of who is doing it, and how much experience they have. The guy you are talking to may not know much more than you do.
6
'67 VW Sunroof
Okay.
If I have 2 rust areas of concern and I am NOT supposed to go over them with epoxy primer then I assume I tape them off, spray the epoxy primer, then go back and do my work on that small section when the ep dries?
Should be ready next week to start on this. Very excited!!
If I have 2 rust areas of concern and I am NOT supposed to go over them with epoxy primer then I assume I tape them off, spray the epoxy primer, then go back and do my work on that small section when the ep dries?
Should be ready next week to start on this. Very excited!!