Hi all! New to the forums! A few questions on freshly bead blasted bug!!

6

'67 VW Sunroof

I will be getting it back from bead blaster in two weeks. (VWbug)
The gentlemen is putting it on a rotisserie and doing the entire car: inside, outside, hood, decklid, fenders, sunroof.
The body is currently off the chassis.
Okay...
When I get it back. I have read to wash it down with dawn and a white brush. Then spray it down with isopropyl alcohol to minimize flash rusting (East Coast zone 7). The painter will be using House of Kolors but I have convinced him to use the epoxy primer from all of the good things I have heard. He would rather use Nason 441-55 Activator-Reducer Etching Primer. He said I will be spending a crazy amount of $$ for an epoxy primer. I checked the price on a gallon and, honestly, don't think it's bad at all!!!....my first question:
#1. Will the SPI give me issues with the House of Kolors paint? I understand many items can be incompatible.
#2. How much time do we have from the time he delivers it before we have to get down to business? We will need to spray ALOT of items! Hood, trunk, decklid, body, etc.....
#3. Surface prep-red scotchbrite pad? 100 grit? D/A sander? Or just scrub with a brush and dawn detergent?
#4. Is it necessary to spray anything additional to prolong this sealing? I may have a month of small, labor intensive, bodywork to tend to and want it in good shape while I do this. It will be in the garage (obviously)
#5. How the heck much will I need to do this? A gallon? What else should I consider so I can get it ordered and here.
#6. What is a preferred way to clean the bug once I get it back from him? I assume I will have a muddy, cruddy, glass/sand mix in my doors and crevices right??
Thanks to anyone that may be able to point me in the right direction. The man painting it puts out some damn good work. He has painted MANY cars/dragsters/classic cars. I've seen his work and am very impressed hence the reason I went to him-plus the job he is doing is F R E E. That helps a lot. Thanks again!!
 
What media is he blasting this with?? I do not know all of the ins/outs to the different medias but others on here do.

I would strongly suggest staying away from a acid etch primer.. even if it is more money to use the epoxy, add up the costs of all of the materials that you will be spraying over it and ask you're self if you can afford to take the risk of having to purchase that all twice because of trying to save a small amount of money on you're ground coat.
 
The basic philosophy if acid etch primer is to get paint to adhere to a bare metal surface. It is made to cut thru light oils and provide a chemical bond to smooth steel. It pretty much ends up being the equivalent of a phosphate coating on the metal. (Acid portion is phosphoric acid). It is a very light coating, it is not supposed to be sprayed on heavy at all. Industrial side, its a safety coating. Its is an extremely dry spray, almost dries when it hits the metal. Any handprints hand oil, is not gonna cause problems. But every etching primer needs another primer or sealer applied. This nason TDS says it has to be applied within 8 hours.My bigger question is what does he use on top of it.

Sandblasting is providing the proper cross hatch for any primer to adhere. Any sandblaster worth anything is gonna handle everything with gloves. I highly doubt you will be getting any muddy problems, sand is dry or it just flat does not spray and cloggs equipment. Mostly you blow out what you can, you drive 3-5000 miles before all of the sand works its way out of crevaces.

Every painter has their ways of doing things. They dont like to work on top of other peoples work not knowing what is underneath. Thats the slippery slope I see with your situation. You have a guy doing work because you like what you have seen him do and are getting it done for free. I am not too sure he is gonna like being told what to use or spraying on something he is not familliar with.

What primer is he planning to put on after the acid etch primer and will etching primer plus the primer equal the all in one product that SPI sells? That is the bottom line.
 
Welcome to the forum, can't wait to see the finished pics of your 67 bug. Lots of great advice here, no one will steer you in the wrong direction. If you are going to use SPI products, start with this thread:
http://www.spiuserforum.com/showthread.php?8-What-every-new-painter-must-read!

And, read the "perfect paint job" that is posted on the SPI products website. Hope this helps.

I don't know the cost of Nason, but for your job, I doubt you'd save much $ over using SPI epoxy. I don't have enough experience to know how much it takes, but 4 gallons ready to spray would be $360. Even if Nason is free, I'd spend the extra money for epoxy.
 
I think Barry has said that SPI is compatible with all the major manufacturers.
You asked about a muddy mess, are you having it blasted with water? If so, then that is not a good idea for the inside and underneath because the water packs the media in the seams and its very difficult to get it out.
If its to be dry blasted, then you need to be very careful of who is doing this. Even if he has experience blasting auto sheet metal, you have to keep in mind that VWs have very thin metal compared to other cars of the same time, I think it is 24 gage metal for the outer panels VS 20 gage on other cars of that time.
When you get the car back, you need to get it in primer very quickly, I would suggest having the body done by itself, and after you have it in primer, then do just the fenders, then do the doors hood and trunk lid together. Try to have them done on Friday so you have the weekend to prep and prime. You really don't want them sitting around waiting for you.

Edit: compatible with all major manufacturers base coats--I didn't mean etch primers
 
The media is a glass bead and water mixture. The vehicle will not be driven as it is going to be trailered and will not have a chance to allow the sand to "fall out of crevices"....
I read the article about the SPI EP and it mentioned NOT to sand before applying bondo/filler but didn't mention incompatibility with different fillers.
Will any filler work or must it spcifically be spi filler? The reason I ask is so I can create an order in the next week for supplies. How much will I need? I would think a gallon of SPI Epoxy Primer?
I wanna get everything clean and coated FIRST to prevent flash rust.
 
I just want to take note of an edit I made to my post,

I think Barry has said that SPI is compatible with all major manufacturers base coats--I forgot to add base coat and I don't want anyone to think that I was implying etch primer.
 
These guys do cars with this glass bead slurry? I know glass bead is a happier media environmentally, since alot of places require aluminum oxide to be manifested and properly disposed, but I dont think it does much for rust. Just powdercoated a plow frame for the guy that plows my lot that was blasted with glass bead and it did nothing for the rust. You might want to check on that to make sure you are not going to be adding a step to cut out or grind and wire brush off rust. The blasting should give you nice bite for the epoxy, but if you are grinding and sanding before the primer for rust then dont forget that 80 grit DA required on any surfaces you might be dealing with before primer.

My understanding is this company you painter wants to use wants their stuff sprayed their way and the corrosion protection they offer is only achieved by these multiple steps. The SPI stuff is all in one product and will blow away the protection the other company offers with all their stuff combined.

Anyway, the SPI is a 1:1 mix, so you buy a gallon of two parts and end up with two sprayable gallons. Kinda think you should be able to do three or four bugs with that, inside and out. If you have him use it as the sealer after all the body work, then maybe 2 or 3 bugs.
 
Anotheridiot-I wasn't having it bead blasted to get rid of rust. Never implied that from my original post. I want to get everything down to bare metal (even in the places I can't get to like hinge areas) so I can really see what I am working with under that po paint.
I also didn't ask how to use other products in my original post. I said he wanted to use another brand/type and I was convinced that the spi ep is better. He said he will shoot whatever I want.
Man, I'm really not trying to start anything here. I just tried to keep the questions I had as short and to the point as possible with the most info I could provide....
It's cool that you can put filler right over the ep without any sanding whatsoever!? That's pretty awesome. So, given the above info, a gallon might be overkill? And once this ep is dry is it hard as heck to sand? I've heard some are super difficult to sand.
It might be best if I just call on Monday. The reason I posted is they are closed on the weekend and had some questions. Thanks again for your help.
 
I wasnt trying to start anything either. Like I said, you learn something new every day. I am industrial and military in my business, acid etch primers are basically department of defense products. We are required to pretreat metal before painting, zinc phosphate, iron phosphate, cad plate, zinc plate, anodize aluminum, chromate conversion on aluminum before applying the specified coatings. DoD had wash primer developed for repairs in the field where they cannot replace the pretreatment. Repairs on military vehicles out in the jungle that have to get repainted to the same specification. Industrial embraced the coating, it moved to automotive with them calling it acid etch primer.

Most of the time you just try to share information here so instead of just pissing on a product that nobody here uses, you instead learn what the application was started for and learn why people believe in using it. Thats all I did was try to explain why your painter likes the stuff. I know you werent asking for advice, I just thought you had a question in your mind about why he uses it.

It was real clear that you were not going to use it. Good luck with your project.
 
even with water blasting you will need to clean and rinse well . once dry apply 2 coats of epoxy . etch is old tech and no longer needed .
when dry blasting it needs washing and rinsing also. no amount of blowing or vacuuming will remove all the media.
 
[QUOTE='67 VW Sunroof;40240]
And once this ep is dry is it hard as heck to sand? I've heard some are super difficult to sand. [/QUOTE]

SPI Epoxy Primer is as easy to sand as any primer I've used, although most of those were lacquer. A few weeks ago I mixed up some 5-year old epoxy to see if it was still OK. I used a roller to apply a coat to the frame on my Corvette. To my surprise it was just fine. Twenty-four hours later I spent less than 5 minutes with a sanding sponge from Harbor Freight to verify that it was not going to peel off or otherwise fail. You'll notice a nice feature of SPI Epoxy Primer is its built-in guide coat. As soon as you sand through the outer layer, the surface changes. The second picture shows darker untouched depressions.
FirstCoatofEpoxy_zpsbf10b39b.jpg


FirstCoatofEpoxySanded_zps7e09ce76.jpg


It might be best if I just call on Monday. The reason I posted is they are closed on the weekend and had some questions.
Click to expand...

Only the office closes on the weekends. You may notice Barry posting on the forum quite regularly and at all kinds of times. He is both the owner of the company and the Tech Line. His signature is only part of the story. Yes, he answers the phone 7 days-a-week and although I haven't done it myself, others have called him on holidays like Thanksgiving -- and he answered the call. In case you missed it, here's Barry's signature:

Barry@kives.net
404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
706-781-2220 Office

When you start using SPI products, you'll think you've stepped through a portal to a parallel universe where great products at great prices from a customer-driven company is reality.
 
Bob Heine;40250 said:
Only the office closes on the weekends. You may notice Barry posting on the forum quite regularly and at all kinds of times. He is both the owner of the company and the Tech Line. His signature is only part of the story. Yes, he answers the phone 7 days-a-week and although I haven't done it myself, others have called him on holidays like Thanksgiving -- and he answered the call. In case you missed it, here's Barry's signature:

Barry@kives.net
404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
706-781-2220 Office

When you start using SPI products, you'll think you've stepped through a portal to a parallel universe where great products at great prices from a customer-driven company is reality.
Click to expand...


Ha, I would NEVER call on a weekend man. I work 6 days a week and very much enjoy my one, uninterrupted, day of peace.
Okay, so one gallon might be too much. Should I just get 2 quarts to spray the inside, outside, fenders (inside and outside) trunk and decklid (inside and outside)?
After he sprays this what else should be applied right away or can I just start filling and sanding from there? There are other items listed with the epoxy primers as well. Which ones are critical to protecting that bare metal right away? Thanks again!
 
Two quarts of epoxy and two quarts of activator is going to cost you $139.64. A gallon of each is going to cost you $177.36. You get double the amount for $38.32 more. Five years ago I bought a gallon of epoxy and after thoroughly mixing it, put it in four quart cans. I think the empty cans cost about $2 each. Because my activator was 5-years old I bought 3 quart cans of activator this year. Haven't opened them yet but I'm sure they will get used. I also bought some Bloxygen this year to fill the empty part of the activator can with nitrogen -- should have done that five years ago.

SPI Epoxy Primer is all you need to get started. Start filling and sanding but re-coat any bare metal when your sanding breaks through.
 
So spray the SPI Epoxy Primer ASAP on a clean metal. Then start sanding and filler etc? Is House Of Kolors stuff compatible? He wants to use 3 base and 3 clear.
Any hints on cleaning the car once back? Gonna be media blasted with glass beads and water. Then he will spray Hold Tight 102 that should last up to three days before rust sets in. I've read Dawn detergent and a white brush, hose off and Dry Dry Dry completely!!!
 
you need to find out which snake oil he is going to spray on it . if it were mine i would prefer some surface flash rust to any of the market hype crap out there.
 
To set the record straight once and for all.....

If the car was already sprayed in etch primer and removing it all isn't in the cards the best thing you can do is lock it down with epoxy. Is it the best way? No, but if it is your only option then it is ok to do so.
 
The car wasn't sprayed with etch primer. Read my initial post.

My questions are with how to prep the bare metal once back from being blasted, how much I will need, and the "process" in which I follow.
So I would:
spray
SPI epoxy primer
Filler
Sand
Apply SPI 2k high build primer
Sand again
?
 
I did understand that it is bare metal. I was just clearing the air.

Block sand the 2k flat
then sealer (or reduced epoxy as sealer)
base coat
clear
wetsand and buff
 
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