fish eyes

Dave C 5

Dave C 5

Member
been painting in my garage for 7 years with no problems and this last year i started getting fish eyes. we cannot find the problem so i built a booth that was totally sealed. spayed my clear and got it immediately on first coat- changed out by dessicant filters...still fish eyed...bought a new hose, changed my filters again and it was good on first couple parts then it fisheyed - BUT it seemed to have started when my compressor kicked on. I have a water trap and 2 QC3 filters. My compressor is one of those cheap ingersoll rand ones with a 3000+ rpm and i know that is bad but that's what i got. Does it sound like i'm starting to wear out the compressor and getting oil now? I'm in the middle of a paint job- short of a new compressor is there a fix ? i don't have a coalesence oil filter (never needed one)- will this solve the problem? motorgaurd filter maybe? or am i throwing my money away. I went ahead and used fish eye eliminator (i know) so i can get these parts done but i still have the body to paint and another car on the way...I have to get this fixed !! creating way to much work !..extra coats of material to leave myself some sanding/buffing room
 
Check around you're intake filters, look for any type of oil, silicone products. How far is you're compressor from where you are working? is it leaking any oil and intake filters sucking it in? Sometimes its really hard to find just keep looking!

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Is it really hot and humid where you are? I had to add a air dryer to stop the water when it was really humid, When I got water I also seemed to get a little oil too. I have to use a toilet paper filter, dessicant dryer and a air dryer in the summer.
 
air compressor is right there. i did build a booth inside of my garage out of plastic and only had a box fan for exhausting-no air comming in. Seems to only happen on clearcoat--i guess that's because it goes down wet-i tend to sray my base dryer. I had the guy from the paint store come out and he sprayed with his gun and he sprayed a wet coat of base and it fisheyed the base. Do those "toilet paper" filters (motorgaurd) work for this problem?..the humitity is not a problem here yet but even when it is humid, i never had this problem...just started last year

also when i drain my qc3--i feel no moisture from them but it seems to me it has to be coming from my air supply---like i said, totally enclosed booth, floors included...oil vapors?
 
I get a few every now and then if I spray the first coat of base really wet, How many feet are you're air lines from you're compressor?
about 12 years ago I had a problem like that and a local body shop own told me to wash the car with purple cleaner and dawn first and rinse well then wash a second time with dawn , rinse well and wipe with wax and grease remover and it cut my fish eye problems almost completely out. What kinda wax and grease remove you using? Since I started using spi water base it really helped and its all I use now, might just be me but I did get fish eyes sometimes and since switching I haven't had that problem lately. Some cars do it and some don't never actualy figured it out everytime.
 
i always wash my cars with dawn and then wax/grease remover before any sanding. Haven't changed that method since the first one and never use to have the problem--just started this last year. My air system has about 75 feet of galvanized pipe that goes up to ceiling--across the garage--and back down to the compressor with two drop legs, the air hose comes out from there which is 2 feet from my compressor. My thought is that if it is still doing it even inside a sealed plastic booth then it must be the air lines? i don't see how airborn contaminants can be getting in there. I use the ppg w/g remover and let it dry for half an hour...as stated before...it seemed to have been cured for a couple parts (after changing filter and hose) then started again on 3rd part suddenly
 
If changed filter and hose and didn't start until 3rd part sounds like moisture, oil, water or some kind of contamination that's coming from compressor or hose because filter is getting full after run a while? I was sanding last week and after 1 hour I had water coming out of the air hose, It was 92deg and 85% humidity, I hooked the hose to the air dryer and filters I use when painting and had no more problems.
 
definitely sounds like an air supply contamination issue, you ruled out the gun when the guy from the paint store had the same results. I short while back I picked up a new cheapy primer gun and got epoxy fisheyes the first and second time I used it, tore the gun down and cleaned out all the china whale blubber assembly lube and reassembled and the fisheye problem disappeared. Fisheye eliminator is the devil.
 
With what you said its an air system problem, the ONLY sure way never to get water is an refrigerant dryer or a desiccant system.
A real good cheap band-aid is the desiccant snake, connects to end of hose and it filled with desiccant , cost about $20 the indicator tells you when its no longer any good, it will get you through the paint job.
 
Well.....used a desiccant snake too ! In addition to the TWO qc3 devilbiss filters ! I read where desiccant doesn't really capture oil - in vapor or aerosl form. This has bugged me long enough with no appear ant fix
 
I fought the same kinda thing last year and changed everything but the compressor, I was ready to give up then I called Barry and even though I had already done everything I could think of he said change the hose closest to the gun and I haven't had anymore trouble. Sometime you have to take a step back a look at everything again. I had a Sherwin Williams rep come and check my air with a tool of some kind and he said my air was better than most shops he goes to but he didn't know what was causing my problem so sometimes experience is better than equipment.
 
Are you seeing a lot of oil when you drain the compressor tank and water traps???
 
i run a mcguards filter at the compressor and one in the booth. i use cheap tolit paper in them .
 
I do not see any oil or moisture come through when I drain my filters..that's why I'm stumped ! my tank just drains dirty water but there doesn't appear to be any oily residue on my rubber gloves .I changed my hose along with filter and as stated before - it seemed to have corrected it for a few parts but started again. There is always air in my system..i don't drain it out when I'm done for the day. What makes me think it's the air...I shut off the air just prior to my filters- drained both filters-changed one that needed to be changed- put on a new hose---started spraying--good for a couple parts then it started fisheying ! just enough time for the contaminants to get to the gun maybe ? at least that's what appeared to have happened. I could take a part outside and clear coat it...if no fish eyes then it is my environment but like I said...these part were painted in a sealed plastic booth.

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ok shine...that's what I'm kinda getting at...does the dessicant filters remove oil in vapor form or aeresol form or liquid form or all of the above? cause I have no oil coelesence filter that I see advertised (3 filter system). The motorgaurd mc100 advertises charcoal and is suppose to filter all of that($100 bucks!)...just trying to rule everything else out befoer I drop another $100 on another filter that doesn't work
 
i've gone broke buying moisture traps . the mcguard filters catch pretty much everything. the toilet paper catches the vapors better than the cartidge. the one in my booth gets changed with every use .
spray air from your gun on a piece of clean glass . if your getting vapor it will leave residue on the glass.
 
ok - i'll give the glass trick a try...kind of hope it's oil in the air delivery system cause I'm out of ideas as far as everything else !
 
came out clean ! nothing ! this is driving me crazy...haven't done ANYTHING different. no cologne-no change in deodorant-sealed booth !...I used tire dressing and a spray wax in there a couple of winters ago like an idiot--thought that was the problem so I built the booth(covered the floors too)...did not fix it! guess i'll spray outside to eliminate the garage environment unless someone has another idea
 
shine;36668 said:
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spray air from your gun on a piece of clean glass . if your getting vapor it will leave residue on the glass.
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Awesome tip!
 
Dave C 5;36667 said:
drained both filters-changed one that needed to be changed- put on a new hose---started spraying--good for a couple parts then it started fisheying ! just enough time for the contaminants to get to the gun maybe ? at least that's what appeared to have happened. I could take a part outside and clear coat it...if no fish eyes then it is my environment but like I said...these part were painted in a sealed plastic booth.
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Sounds like you made two changes before the fisheye problem started-I would look at both of these first before moving on to other possibilities.
 
actually the problem has been there since last year...those 2 changes were my best result but it started again....so I figured it was my air supply--problem now is the mirror test that shine suggested shows no residue--CLEAN!
 
i know it's been awhile but i'm posting the solution to my problem in case anyone else has this problem. The solution was to get another air compressor! the air compressor was one of those IR box store units- plenty of cfm's and 80 gallon so i thought it was the way to go.. It was the type that ran at over 3500rpm's ( produced alot of heat ) and it was fine for awhile but must have started wearing out or something. The contamination must have been oil vapors or water (even though i couldn't feel it). The new one runs MUCH slower and all the problems went away. I see alot of posts on air-compressor questions..i learned my lesson that there is more to picking out an air compressor than looking at the CFM's it produces.
 
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