Compressor Upgrade / Re-thinking my setup

[rustover]

I'm thinking about upgrading from a single stage to a two stage unit. Ive been looking at the IR's 5hp and Quincy 5hp two stage 60 gallon units. I currently have a 5hp IR 80 gallon single stage and it seems to do fine, but the operating range is 90-135psi. The two stage units are 140-175psi. I believe this would help me with my epoxy issues as well. At first I thought about selling the IR, but to be honest I think I would be better off still using it for everything but paint. It runs the da's and sandblasters great, plus the money I would get out of it just wouldn't be worth it. I would be able to do all my prep work and still have a fresh unit that is not boiling over with heat in the summer.

Anyway with that said I have been looking at the specs on my filters for max psi ratings. At my paint station I run an RTI 204mi and a Devilbiss ct30 dessicant system. The max pressure on the rti stuff is 150psi. So I could just plumb in a regulator before the paint station and set it at 140 and be ok.

My compressor is located in a basement of a building next to the garage. I have about 40ft of air line before it gets to the work stations. I also run a Motor Guard m60 at the compressor. The max psi for it is 125 psi. With my current setup I'm already 10psi over when the compressor is fully charged. The tech support at Motor Guard told me that that particular filter was not doing anything for me there. I mainly put it there for oil vapors, but it does catch a lot of water. I also have a m60 and regulator at what I call my general air tool station. I very rarely get any water in that m60, but I do get some in the drop before it turns to the m60.

So if I do add the two stage unit to my system I will have to re-arrange my setup at the compressors and the two stage would have to enter on the other side of the m60. I would also incorporate a few ball valves so that only one compressor is feeding the system. As for the electric I will just plug up which ever compressor is going to be used. They both have the same power requirements. I thought about hooking them together and such but I'm a little worried I wouldn't have the electric capacity to run both at the same time. Running would probably be ok, startup would be another story, plus the pressure setting are so far apart the single stage would never come on. I also thought about buying a new pump, but what I would pay for a pump I can just about buy the extra compressor, not including the pressure relief valves.

I think this would make a really nice setup, I'm just worried about losing the m60 at the new compressor. Maybe I've gone crazy. What do you guys think? Thanks, Russ

Air outlet going to the garage.



Paint station, just prior to installing the air coupler



General work station.

 

[Chad.S]

Take a look at champion compressors,, super happy with mine.

 

[rustover]

Will do Chad. I'm thinking about doing this sometime in the Spring, so I got some time.

 

[Bob Heine]

I also run a Motor Guard m60 at the compressor. I mainly put it there for oil vapors, but it does catch a lot of water.

I would also incorporate a few ball valves so that only one compressor is feeding the system.

I think this would make a really nice setup, I'm just worried about losing the m60 at the new compressor. Maybe I've gone crazy. What do you guys think? Thanks, Russ

I put a Motor Guard M60 in a similar location and all it did was collect water -- a lot of water. I think that filter is most effective when it's dry so I moved it to the end of a 50-foot run of galvanized pipe and a desiccant filter with a couple of drops in between. The M60 doesn't even get damp. I did put a bronze filter at the compressor outlet but it rarely gets more than a drop of water and no sign of oil. Before the air cools in the piping, a lot of the water condenses in the compressor tank.

The ball valves are a great idea and would let you run the two-stage with both tanks filling (single-stage not plugged in). A 140-gallon supply of air should be more than adequate to do a complete. You would also have the advantage of water condensing in the two tanks and cooling the air more before going through the pipes.

 

[anotheridiot]

well, nothing wrong with collecting water, dont need that down the road either, especially if you are still going to share the same pipe going outside with both compressors. Really the best way to get the water out is a refrigerated dryer, lowering the dew point of the air so the water drops out. Picked up quite a few used induatrial ones on ebay, .

 

[chevman]

I also run a Motor Guard m60 at the compressor. I mainly put it there for oil vapors, but it does catch a lot of water.

I would also incorporate a few ball valves so that only one compressor is feeding the system.

I think this would make a really nice setup, I'm just worried about losing the m60 at the new compressor. Maybe I've gone crazy. What do you guys think? Thanks, Russ

I put a Motor Guard M60 in a similar location and all it did was collect water -- a lot of water. I think that filter is most effective when it's dry so I moved it to the end of a 50-foot run of galvanized pipe and a desiccant filter with a couple of drops in between. The M60 doesn't even get damp. I did put a bronze filter at the compressor outlet but it rarely gets more than a drop of water and no sign of oil. Before the air cools in the piping, a lot of the water condenses in the compressor tank.

The ball valves are a great idea and would let you run the two-stage with both tanks filling (single-stage not plugged in). A 140-gallon supply of air should be more than adequate to do a complete. You would also have the advantage of water condensing in the two tanks and cooling the air more before going through the pipes.

Good post! I agree that motor guard M60 should be just taking the remaining few drops of moisture out after the water has been collected in the drop legs along the *****!****,

 

[Brad J.]

I think you'd be better off spending the money on a refrigerant drier or even a good fan powered aftercooler. Having higher pressure isn't going to help you. Both of my compressors are 175psi kickoff but I'm regulated to 110 spi out of them.

Using 3/4 pipe might have been a good upgrade with 40' of line. Probably not crucial though.

 

[DATEC]

Take a look at champion compressors,, super happy with mine.

+1 on Champion can't recommend them enough. They are a work horse, I have the R series and it is bullet proof and worth the extra money.

 

[rustover]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I have looked into the Champion and I would love to get one. It might be out of the budget. I will have to see. Going to try to save up some money and see what I can find around Spring. I have been looking at Schulz. If I can swing it I think I will go ahead and get the 2stage 7.5hp. I would like to keep it around 2k. I would love to get an air dryer and maybe one day I can. My single stage runs all the time and really gets a work out. I think I will still keep it though. When I re-do the lines I will move the M60. Now I just need to get the wife on board with the idea. LOL.

 

[DATEC]

7.5's can draw some juice I would make sure your service to the shop can take the load especially if you are running something else too. For the little you gain in cfm might kill ya with the electric. Unless you look at champion's 7.5hp W/10hp pump then that would be differant but the cost is even more. I would go with a 5hp 80gal that's what I use, wish I stretched it to the one I just mentioned but was just out of reach at the time and my shops supply couldn't handle the draw of a 7.5 at the time anyhow.

Look at the gain in cfm's and the current draw and the speed of the pump the faster the rpm the more heat, oil/water in lines and general wear and tear.

Just food for thought.

 

[rustover]

7.5's can draw some juice I would make sure your service to the shop can take the load especially if you are running something else too. For the little you gain in cfm might kill ya with the electric. Unless you look at champion's 7.5hp W/10hp pump then that would be differant but the cost is even more. I would go with a 5hp 80gal that's what I use, wish I stretched it to the one I just mentioned but was just out of reach at the time and my shops supply couldn't handle the draw of a 7.5 at the time anyhow.

Look at the gain in cfm's and the current draw and the speed of the pump the faster the rpm the more heat, oil/water in lines and general wear and tear.

Just food for thought.

Your right. It may not be worth it. Also finding current specs is tough when looking at these units. The compressor area is in another building with a 100A sub panel feed from the garage, which has its own separate 200A. All of that used to be feed from the house, but I was dimming the lights in the house, best thing I ever done was putting the garage on its own service. I also really like not hearing the compressor running when working in the garage. The only down side is I get a bill for the garage only now and its an eye opener to see how much KW's I use out there.

 

[Chad.S]

Take a look at champion compressors,, super happy with mine.

+1 on Champion can't recommend them enough. They are a work horse, I have the R series and it is bullet proof and worth the extra money.

I think mine is the R series as well, I know it was a upgrade from the other model, it has better valves, etc.

I got a 7.5 hp 4-cylinder.. It is actually a 15hp pump spun slower.. Hopefully this means it will last a long time.

 

[Chad.S]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I have looked into the Champion and I would love to get one. It might be out of the budget. I will have to see. Going to try to save up some money and see what I can find around Spring. I have been looking at Schulz. If I can swing it I think I will go ahead and get the 2stage 7.5hp. I would like to keep it around 2k. I would love to get an air dryer and maybe one day I can. My single stage runs all the time and really gets a work out. I think I will still keep it though. When I re-do the lines I will move the M60. Now I just need to get the wife on board with the idea. LOL.

I have a older Schultz pump, I know a little bit about these as I have two models, there use to be a factory in the next town over that made air compressors for Snap on for quite a while.. They used schulz pumps. The one I like is the 40SA pump, however the newer models are much smaller, they are rated at the same output but smaller cylinder, which basically means they spin it much faster to get the same rating..

Personally I'm not a big fan of doing it this way because it runs MUCH hotter and spins much faster so it will wear out much quicker..

On the flip side it would probably work good for you, we use mine like crazy so longevity is a concern. It cost me over $1,000.00 more to get the bigger pump and have it slowed down. But it is just some info for you to think about.. You may be able to get a 7.5hp pump with a 5hp motor. I don't know for sure but I would think they would make a slower spinning 5hp compressor.. I know Champion has a complete list of features that shows cfm, RPM etc etc.

I also paid for the after cooler.. and I STRONGLY suggest getting this. The air that comes out of the tank is so much cooler.. It's just something that looks like a trans cooler mounted to the compressor behind the fan.. It drops the temp over 100 degrees. I was debating the upgrade but I am VERY happy I added that feature..

 

[DATEC]

Take a look at champion compressors,, super happy with mine.

+1 on Champion can't recommend them enough. They are a work horse, I have the R series and it is bullet proof and worth the extra money.

Yes that is the one I wish I could have afforded and had the electric service for. It has a 10hp pump and turns 200rpm (I think) slower then mine which is slow already compared to other brands. I've had mine for over 15yrs and not one issue at all. The R series has disc valves compared to Reed valves, much better for longevity. Your solid for years great choice.

 

[Barry]

I have learned a few thing in last month when a shop had their two stage start blowing oil, Tye found a compressor guy that really knows his stuff.
A few short notes, oil vapors will go through desiccant, I had no idea. Second he said for a body shop you want pure volume as you don't need 175lbs for taking off truck tires.
Think he sold him a 80 gallon tank with a high volume out put that stays at 120LBS.

TYE reads but don't post, so hopefully he will explain in detail.

 

[Brad J.]

I'm done buying new compressors after the Eaton disaster. I can craiglist a Quincy QR 340/350/370 pump for cheap and put an overhaul kit in it. Then build your desired motor/speed package. They can be ran with a 5hp, 7.5, or 10hp. You can build a 3-4k unit for 1500 bucks or so. Less if you want to use your existing tank as a foundation. Other great options for pumps out there. I'm just a Quincy guy after rebuilding several different brands. Best deal I picked up was a brand new 370 pump on a crate from Detroit power company for 300 bucks. It's piggybacked with a 350 pump that I run with my tractor when I blast big items. This stuff is really simple and with the internet all the info is at your fingertips. All quincy pressure lubes only need 400 rpms minimun because they don't need splash lube. My 325 is setup for 500 rpm's and it's quite. I've been on the prowl for a 390 pump that I can run at 400 rpms. That would be a nice setup with a 7.5hp.

I have a quincy 340 7.5hp setup and a 325 3hp setup. I run the 325 for daily use and turn the other one when needed. Before my 10hp would dim the house lights and the 7.5 doesn't.

On all my compressors I run Sullair oil/air seperators before the dessicant towers. Oil can't reach the lines or dessicant unless the system is neglected. My pumps are tight so maintenance on those seperators is as easy as looking at the gauge at the top when the filter needs changed.

You should peace meal the parts with each job and the wife won't know the difference. Well, eventually they will look around and start asking questions and then you play dumb.

 

[Chad.S]

I have learned a few thing in last month when a shop had their two stage start blowing oil, Tye found a compressor guy that really knows his stuff.
A few short notes, oil vapors will go through desiccant, I had no idea. Second he said for a body shop you want pure volume as you don't need 175lbs for taking off truck tires.
Think he sold him a 80 gallon tank with a high volume out put that stays at 120LBS.

TYE reads but don't post, so hopefully he will explain in detail.

I agree with the volume, I have 240 gallons of storage on at all time. When we blast or do anything large I open the line to the other tanks and compressors in the next door building. "piped underground to connect" and then I bump up to 560 gallons of storage for air.. I can have a guy outside blasting and 3 guys running sanders and you won't notice any air pressure changes. Yes, it's overkill. lol.

 

[Brad J.]

Forgot the name of it earlier but Coalescing filter is the one needed off the tank to seperate oil and water. I use Sullaire because the local compressor store carries that brand.

 

[Barry]

Forgot the name of it earlier but Coalescing filter is the one needed off the tank to seperate oil and water. I use Sullaire because the local compressor store carries that brand.

Its the most important thing you can have but a lot of people don't.

 

[rustover]

Lots of great info here. Thanks for all the replies. I will move the m60 and look for a Coalescing filter to put in its place.