Where to learn basics of welding

R

RodMan

Hoping to get some help. I would like to start welding. Seen plenty of tv shows and have watched guys do it in person. Never have tried it myself. Its time. How would you recommend I start. Take a class at local college? Youtube then practice? Was thinking of starting out with a 110 mig welder and go from there. Should I get a diy machine and see if I can get the hang of it first or pony up for a pro set-up from the start?
 
A local school facility may help you quite a bit. What do you plan on welding, how thick, type of materials all make a difference in welder selection. The cheapest way out would be a quality 110 mig from Lincoln, MIller, Esab, or Hobart. A 110 has it limits but would get you started and would weld almost anything on your car project.
 
140 amp 110volt welder any of the brands mentioned above but you do get what you pay for.
Go to millerwelds.com and there is a ton of info and a good forum also metalmeet.com
It takes patience and experience . But it is also very rewarding .
 
your working with duty cycle. the 110's are limited on duty cycle. the hobart 120 handler is an excellent welder but your still dealing with duty cycle.
 
I do find that my 110 mig welds sheet metal easier/better then my larger 250 amp mig. Size the welder for the size of the job, much like any tool you purchase. I will tell you that a 110 can be handy, as you can plug it in many locations. Buy a name brand welder, as service and parts will be available down the road. You can't go wrong with either Miller or Lincoln. Miller has a welder that is both 110 and 220, I've never used it, but might be a versatile tool, depending on your welding needs. Myself, I like my small mig welder for sheet metal with my tig, and for heavier steel my Lincoln 255 works great. To add to what Shine has said, Duty Cycle: is the amount of welding you can do non-stop on the welders highest heat setting in a ten minute interval. For example, a 20% duty cycle would mean you can weld for two minutes non-stop on the welders highest setting. A 40% duty cyle would be welding non-stop for 4 minutes out of a ten minute period on the highest setting. Rarely is duty cycle a big concern for hobby welding, and sheet metal welding for autobody, as you rarely weld non-stop, especially for a lengthy period. Duty cycle can be very important on larger jobs, and when welding heavier materials.
 
releasing the trigger does not restart the duty cycle. small 110 units are ok for brackets or tiny patches but are not really good for sheet metal work. i use my big hobart and 030 wire . and never put your safety at risk with a small wire welder. wire welders are one of the most dangerous of welders. on chassis or other critical areas you are better off stick welding.

go to miller.com. there is a ton of forum knowledge there.
 
Grubworm that link is more than a good read, thanks for posting it, it will be a lot of help for mig welders.
 
chevman;22318 said:
Grubworm that link is more than a good read, thanks for posting it, it will be a lot of help for mig welders.
Click to expand...


He's adding to it regularly, or as he has the time to. I'm copying it and putting it in a notebook for myself.
 
Shine, why not mig weld chassis? I know lots of builders that will stick, tig and mig chassis all the time. I would say it depends on the properties of the wire you are using to weld with. Much like the stick you choose to arc weld with. I find a smaller wire like 0.025-0.023 melts faster because it's thinner, and works better for me then larger wire. I know my big Lincoln does not do as well as my smaller Lincoln for sheet metal welding. I found that my buddies hobart 135 also welds thinner material more easily then the larger machines.
 
we're talking about novice welders here. they take a mig welder , listen to all the war stories on line and start welding. most do not get penetration just a nice pretty weld with a 110 welder.
small wire burns faster and fills less . do what you want but i would advice anyone to look elsewhere for welding advice. miller.com is very good and has professional welders on it.
 
I agree Shine, small 110 welders are good for sheet metal only. I wouldn't risk using a 110 on chassis or other heavier materials. That's the reason why I have two migs and a tig welder. All for different jobs/purposes. Many believe a 110 mig can do it all, and it's simply not true. I keep 0.025" in my 110 mig, and 0.035" in my larger mig welder. Often I find tig is the best for sheet metal welding. The smaller the heat affected zone, with penetration, the less heat distortion/warpage will occur in your panel. Making the tig great for sheet metal, and thin mig wire work well as well.
 
I hear what you are saying Shine, it's all about keeping it to a minimum, and that's where the tig and mig with smaller wire sizes come into play. Larger wire is for heavier materials, When I weld log splitters and trailers I use my 0.035 or larger wire. The "HAZ" i.e. heat affected zone as it's refered to in welding terms, is the area being welded and exposed to heat as a result of welding. Keeping this area to a minimum is what is desired when welding sheet steel, especially of the thinner gauges.
 
I think the problem with using too much power is burning through, and with that extra power setting comes faster wire speed setting, so wire thats too heavy wouldn't be helpful there. Doesn't take much power for sheet metal, my 110 works great. Manufacturers recommendations are a good starting point.

Something not mentioned about tig is the softer weld, which can be planished out without much fear of cracking.
 
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I am really thinking some sheet metal work and maybe some motorcycle stuff. Nothing too heavy for now. Any idea how much I should spend on an out the door setup; welder, helmet, etc.?
 
The Millermatic 211 might be what you are looking for. It is dual voltage so you can run it on 110v or 220v. You can probably find a welding supply place near you that will put a package together but here are the ballpark prices from the Internet:
$1,000 Millermatic 211
$ 90 Miller Classic helmet
$ 10 Gloves
-------
$1,100

MIG Upgrade
You can use it as a wire welder with flux core wire with no additional outlay but you're going to have a lot of molten steel spatter. You'll need a tank of shielding gas to use it as a 'MIG' so that will require buying or renting a tank.
$ 180 Forty cubic foot tank for 75% Argon/25% Carbon dioxide shielding gas (good for plain steel)
$ 15 Fill the empty tank for the first time (lower price for re-fills)
$ 12 Two pound spool of .023 wire
------
$ 207

Stainless Steel Upgrade
When you decide you want to weld some stainless steel (exhaust?) you'll need another tank. Because the gas mix is different, most suppliers won't let you use the other tank.
$ 180 Forty cubic foot tank for 98% Argon/2% Carbon dioxide shielding gas (good for stainless steel)
$ 15 Fill the empty tank for the first time (lower price for re-fills). Supplier might try to sell you Tri-gas with Helium or Hydrogen but at 5 times the cost.
$ 18 Two pound spool of stainless wire
------
$ 213

Aluminum Upgrade
Once you are addicted to welding stuff, you'll want to weld some aluminum. The aluminum wire is soft so it bunches up and jams in the 10-foot long sleeve in the standard gun. You''ll need a spool gun but luckily the Miller 100 fits the Millermatic 211. And of course, you’ll need another (different) tank of shielding gas.
$ 210 Miller 100 Spool gun
$ 180 Forty cubic foot tank for 100% Argon (good for aluminum)
$ 15 Fill the empty tank for the first time (lower price for re-fills).
$ 6 One pound spool of aluminum wire
------
$ 411

Total for the Miller setup: $1,931. Figure $2K with shipping.

If you're a cheapskate hobbyist like me, you can choose a cheaper alternative. I didn't expect to be able to weld but at $89 I took a chance and bought the crappiest flux wire welder Harbor Freight sells. I managed to fab up a few things and it was easier than I expected (after I bought better quality flux core wire). None of my welding is structural -- if my welds fail, my exhaust pipes or a relay bracket may crumble. My first real welding project was a pair of pipes to connect my coated Hooker headers to the Magnaflow stainless exhaust. It's plain steel tubing and after I made sure none of my welds were leaking I sent the pipes to Jet-Hot to be coated.
Exhaust.jpg


I wanted to be able to weld stainless steel and aluminum as well so I bought an Eastwood 175 welder. It uses industry-standard tips, shields and supplies. It's a 220v machine that comes with a regulator and spool gun. It was on sale but I've seen it for less (free shipping). I bought the Harbor Freight helmet but Northern tool sells one for the same price and comes highly recommended.

$ 538 Eastwood 175 welder with spool gun
$ 50 Auto darkening helmet
$ 8 Gloves (2 pair)
------
$ 596
$ 195 MIG Upgrade (comes with wire)
$ 207 Stainless steel setup
$ 195 Aluminum setup (spool gun comes with wire)
------
$1,193

It's about half the price of the Miller setup so I picked up some other tools and supplies as well (welding table, clamps, etc.). I was able to fabricate a 3" stainless steel turbo downpipe for my PT Cruiser with this machine so I'm happy with it. The shielding gas makes a huge difference.

Started with Pieces:
DownpipeinPieces.jpg


Welded Upper Half:
TopHalfComplete.jpg


Welded Lower Half:
LowerHalf.jpg


Still have to install the two halves in the car and tack weld the final joint to be sure it all lines up.
 
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I have a lincoln 180 mig and a Miller 250 mig, and a Lincoln Tig.
My mig welders pretty much sit all the time. I don't like the hard, brittle, unworkable welds they give in sheet metal. I use them for trailers or rottisserie fixturing and thats about it.
Tig makes a nice weld that is more workable and controllable, but it's a lot of money.

I have a Meco gas welding setup from www.tinmantech.com and that is a really nice setup. You can weld/braze/repair darn near anything. I'm sold on this setup for restoration type work. I still use my tig on some things but as an all around versatile setup you can beat a torch setup and a meco gas weld setup. A bunch of tools in one. Try repairing pot metal or delicate cast aluminum with a Mig. The site I mentioned has a lot of rentable Dvd's or books on welding. Great company with top notch stuff.
 
i learned using gas. i think the mig is one of the most dangerous of all welders. too many people think a nice pretty bead is a good weld. whats worse is trying to avoid warping which just makes for a weaker weld in many cases. and brads right about the weld. it is hard and brittle and prone to cracking. i prefer the tig or acc gas. i have a henrob welding torch . it is a hard torch to master but it will weld beer cans together and cut 1/2 in steel. amazing tool.
 
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