Where to draw the line on cut and replace?

MX442

MX442

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This is the quarter panel of my '70 442. Is this metal too overworked and fatigued to straighten out? There was 1/2" thick of filler there. Would I be better off making a patch? (As I type, I think the better answer is to cut and weld).


What is the best way to treat the pinch weld around the wheel openings? There aren't any pinholes rusting through, but I'd hate to have bubbles show up in a few years.
 
It's pretty hard to tell from here, but I will always try real hard to save an original panel if it's not too rusty. I think that panel is salvageable, given some knowledge of metalwork and enough time.

Replacement panels are Taiwanese, and to be avoided if possible. (My opinion.)
 
I would definitely save that panel-especially if this is a correct restoration. I see no rust!!!
 
Yes, Bob, I'm trying to do a correct restoration with minimal cutting. I'm going to bore you guys with the whole story.

This car has been garaged since 1987, only 56k miles. Therefore no rust, except for this spot. It destroyed a transmission, and had front end damage. It was sold to the guy I bought it from in 1990. He took it all apart and never did anything. In 2005, I answered an ad in the newspaper for a band saw. When I showed up to buy the band saw, I saw the car buried under junk in his garage. I said, "if you EVER sell this car, call me first!!!" I bugged him for about two weeks, and then gave up. Seven months later, the phone rang said he was ready to sell. This photo was from 1990 when the previous owner bought it.

In the door cavity, I found an old registration card. I looked up the name in the phone book, and after the third try, I found a previous owner and got the whole history of the car since new. He said that during a blizzard in 1982, they went into the ditch. That's where the damage came from and the only re-paint.

The trunk filler (from trunk floor to lower quarter has very heavy scale internal rust. It has one small spot rusted through. However it is SO solid that I can not poke an awl through it. I will cut it out anyway. Here is a picture of the drop panel from the inside. The rust through is next to that rubber plug laying in there.


The exterior QP has a rust through and some small pin holes.

I spent 8 hours yesterday wielding a BFH making this replacement piece to replace the lower 3" of the QP. I'm not happy yet with the shape and contour. I will also make a new trunk filler piece because I don't want chinese metal on my car. And because I'm dumb enough to try to hammer out a piece that complicated. I haven't cut anything out yet, just trying to make the replacement pieces first.


Crashtech, there is no taiwan metal here! A toronado was gracious enough to be an organ donor for sheet-metal. All OLDSMOBILE steel here!
 
Did some heat and beat to shrink. Now I'm happy with the shape and contour. Just mud over the seam and screws, good to go? Just kidding.



Then I spent the afternoon working out that wrinkled mess. Heat, hammer, push, pull... My back hurts and I had to quit. Almost there! I'm glad I took your advice and didn't cut it out.

 
Eight days of shaping metal to make patch panels. I don't have many pics of the process and how I did it, but mostly tape patterns, bend, and hammer. I started lurking on Metal Meet a few years ago and absorb anything I could. My tools consist of a few body hammers and dollies, ball peen hammer, railroad track anvil, snips, and O/A torch. This is my first attempt at real body work. I'm not an expert, I just make it up as I go and try to use common sense. Last December I learned to O/A weld, and using an old fender, I started cutting, pounding and welding on it. After about 100 hours of learning on that fender, I moved on to my restoration fenders. So here's where I'm at as of today.
I started by cutting out only some of the rot. I needed enough area left for reference and forming the patch panels. I started with the fender lip. Using a tape pattern, trace out the shape, and tip the corner with some pliers.

Slapper and hammer on the anvil to shrink, stretch and shape.

Tweaked it until it was a perfect fit. I'm not sure if I want to gas weld or MIG this in. I make my patches with 0 clearance so I can gas weld. I learned to MIG yesterday for the purpose of plug welding. I tried some practice butt welding with the MIG and was having trouble..

Moving on, I cut out the rot on the inner wheel tub, and torched it in.

Next was the outer tub patch. I can't believe that I was able to hammer this out of one piece of steel. Wrapped it in tape, marked some lines, tipped the flanges, and hammer stretched into a thick dense piece of foam on the floor. (kind of like using a sand bag for stretching).



to be continued.
 
Next, I cut out the trunk filler drop. I made this in two pieces and welded together. I borrowed a bead roller to make the contours. That made things much easier! What a handy tool!

Fitting it into place


Now that all my patches were pounded out, I sprayed two coats of SPI epoxy on the pieces that will never be seen again. Next, I final fit the outer wheel tub patch and gas welded it in, then MIG plug welded the flange. What a pain, this was in a tight spot. In the corners where I couldn't get to with the torch, I made some MIG wire sculptures. ;) After using a die grinder with carbide bit and cartridge roll, this is what it looks like. After that, I brushed on some left over epoxy to cover the bare metal before it gets buried to never be seen again.


I'm trying to get this quarter finished up over the weekend. Back out to the garage!
 
That ugly wrinkled corner turned out pretty nice. I had no idea that metal like that could be worked out. I kept at it, and it is close enough for a little skim of filler. I'm glad I didn't cut it out!

 
Very tedious... blood, sweat, and tears... I welded the pieces of the puzzle together. Then I tried to weld in the quarter patch. The camera doesn't tell the whole story. The front 12" or so is sunk in about 1/2", and more waves than the ocean. Trying to figure out how to solve it. The weld line is below the trunk floor, so it is nearly impossible to get leverage and push on it. I have the idea of shaping the end of a sledge hammer to be a "dolly on a stick", then maybe I can get a helper to push on it while I slap it out. If I was smarter, I would have made the cut a lot higher so it would have been easier to work. But, I wanted to save as much original metal as possible.
 
Got the trunk drop welded in:



Then when I welded in the new quarter patch, I ran into problems. I thought I'd weld in the ends first, and chase the buckle of the old metal to the center to be able to work it out... Big mistake. I have a big "buckle" in the center that will not hammer out. I think I'm going to have to make relief cuts, or ... cut it off and start over. :(



I decided to take a break from this side and work on the other side. After removing several pounds of silly putty:


My buckled repaired side is 10x better than the mess that was left behind here! I've got about 3 weeks to work on it as much as I can.. Maybe I can have at least one quarter finished and epoxied.
 
Gas welding. I have a borrowed MIG for the plug welds. I also have access to a TIG, and now thinking about learning to use that instead of the gas. I think I'm putting way too much heat in the panel with gas. On the right side, I'm thinking the previous repair was ground way too thin. Not sure if I need to replace it or not.
 
This is not an uncommon problem when MIG welding on thin metal, patience and spacing of the tacks to keep the metal cool is key, , ,as for the dip, you'll probably need to shrink the metal by heating it with a rose bud flame and then place a wet rag over the spot immediately to cool it , , you only need to heat a spot the size of a quarter, so it glows red, then soak with a wet rag, , while it may not remove the dimple entirely, it will reduce the effect , , you will probably need to do this in several spots. If you try to pull it out you will probably end up with an old "oil can " effect , , there maybe a better way, but this process has worked great for me in the past
 
get a shrinking disc and work the panel back. if it is welded it will shrink. use a heavy slapping spoon behind it so you can hammer it to stretch it back out. no need to heat and shrink .
 
I got a couple hours in yesterday on the right quarter. It has not been welded. The big dent ahead of the marker light popped out with a smack from the dolly. However, it seems thin and still wants to oil-can. There is a outward bulge below the marker light that also oil-cans really bad. Shine, I have a shrinking disk. Do you have any tips on how to use it for a large oil-can area like this? I tried it on the oil-can on the welded side, but it didn't do what I wanted. I need a better strategy with the disk. If I torch shrink it, where is the best place to start? The center of the oil-can? On closer inspection, there were some rust speckles behind the wheel opening. I haven't got to the inside yet to see if it needs to be cut out.
 
Shine, on that welded seam, we thought it just needed stretched. But the more we on dolly slapped it, the worse it got. Then we tried to shrink, thus the big burn mark in the center. That didn't work either. I ran the shrinking disk on the inside a little bit where I could get to it. I put a football back there and inflated it. It pops out to the right shape, then let the air out, it slams back inward. Tension somewhere is pulling it in. I'm thinking of cutting it off higher to get rid of the oil-canned old metal.
 
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