Weld thru primers... discuss.

M

Marty Comstock

Weld thru primers. I have an opinion on them, and a method on welding spot or rosette welds.

What methods do you guys use, and why? I will post my opinions and observations after a few responses.

Thanks
Marty
 
Have you conducted a search of this site regarding "Weld thru primers"?
 
Yes I have, and I see people mentioning it but not really discussing the pros/cons of its use. However, If I missed a thread that has already discussed this in depth, if you could please point me in that direction, I would be grateful. Otherwise, what are your thoughts?
 
I've used the weld primer in a small can with swab attached to the lid and didn't care for it so I stopped using it. I found that when I would use it my welds would look kinda sloppy even after it dried the welds would still not be as neat and clean. I do understand that the primer is supose to burn into the molten weld and surrounding area giving it a layer of protection against rust but I'm just not too sure about that. I would think the molten metal bould burn off anything in it's way but I don't have the equipment or know how to test it. I just keep the area in primer and only clear the area where the plug weld is going to go, by fitting and marking the plug holes with a black Sharpie. After welding I flood the seam with undercoat. That's how I do it at my work.
 
The zinc is supposed to stay around the weld, Chrysler still says no weld through primers on all of their procedure guides.
 
What about a replacement part that has ecoat on it? Leave it and drill your rosette weld holes or strip it off the back side and use weld though primer?
 
E-coat by itself is not a real good protecter from rust when exposed to the enviroment. You would at least want to seal it with a good sealer, primer or epoxy. Then I would punch or drill holes for plug welds. You only have to use a red scotch pad to prep it as you would the outside no need to strip it off unless you really want too.
 
Bob Hollinshead;n73152 said:
The zinc is supposed to stay around the weld, Chrysler still says no weld through primers on all of their procedure guides.
That's because all of their panels have some sort of double sided zinc coating from the factory. Their advice also states not to grind the coatings off of the weld areas.
 
DATEC;n73161 said:
E-coat by itself is not a real good protecter from rust when exposed to the enviroment. You would at least want to seal it with a good sealer, primer or epoxy. Then I would punch or drill holes for plug welds. You only have to use a red scotch pad to prep it as you would the outside no need to strip it off unless you really want too.
The only environmental factor which causes e-coat to deteriorate faster than any other coating is ultraviolet radiation. Intact OE e-coat inside of a pinch weld is no more of a corrosion problem than intact SPI epoxy inside a pinch weld.

JMHO
 
crashtech;n73209 said:
The only environmental factor which causes e-coat to deteriorate faster than any other coating is ultraviolet radiation. Intact OE e-coat inside of a pinch weld is no more of a corrosion problem than intact SPI epoxy inside a pinch weld.

JMHO

Sorry about that, I was referring to the under side of wheel wells and the back side of panels like bedsides that get road grime and salt abuse. But I would not sand it completely off to do any kind of painting.
 
When assembling adjacent panels I'll typically just use epoxy between the two, as shown here, painted on the rear tailgate opening, and also on the underside of the tailpan. This provides rust protection where in many cases the factory process does not add any paint until after assembly. In cars like this 55, in many cases the inner voids such as in the rockers or floor crossmembers never receive any paint finish inside, making them prone to moisture and rust issues.

Where this epoxy will not allow welding, you will need to clean the paint off the adjacent panel within the drilled plug weld hole.


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Which is what brought about the need for this tool, the same size drill bit I used for plug weld holes is flattened and backfaced to resemble an end mill cutter.


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This shows how it works, cleans the paint from the metal surface, but having a flat face on the cutter, it doesn't affect the metal as a regular drill bit would. Notice most of the "chips" are paint....


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And welded......


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Some guys will use a weld through primer to accomplish this same process, I prefer the epoxy as I read an issue of Auto Restorer magazine quite a few years back that a study showed epoxy offered better long term protection from rust. I'd say use either method, as something, no matter whether you choose weld through or epoxy, will be better than nothing at all.


For application, I spray inside my paint booth. For a small application like you see here, I'll mix up some epoxy and brush it on. (note brush strokes in first pic above) Again, the application process won't matter much as any exposed epoxy will be sanded and re-applied later, but now that we have some epoxy between the two panels, there is better rust protection regardless of how it got there.
 
^makes me wish there was a "like" button!

This is my exact train of thought, and how i *try*to do all seams. At least in my shop I do 100% of the time. Great write up and explanation, by the way. I say Try because I work in a shop where these guys just love the weld thru. In my mind, nothing out of a spray can is any good because it is not a urethane of any kind, it just cant be. I get the point of how its supposed to melt around a weld, but they spray it like it actually works as good as an epoxy. I would rather do as above, epoxy it all, and just scrape out in a rosette weld when you need to make weld contact. I also heavily spray and coat all seams after the fact, and if it runs into those tight spots, all the better.

My main argument is that there is no way something in a spray can can trump any 2 part primer. Or am I wrong? I'd rather see POR 15 than weld thru primer, but Id most rather see epoxy. As for weld through being better than nothing? well, its adhesion is utterly horrible. Recent cab I was working on the previous metalman used weld thru, and wherever he used it, I went to bare metal in a dang blast hurry. makes me nervous about areas i cant get to...


Marty
 
Marty,
Your thoughts are correct IMO. There is nothing better then either a coat of good primer or epoxy between seams. The weld thru primer is not intended to be a sealant or adhesive between two raw metal seams in any way shape or form. As for it working as advertised I already touched on that. You are correct in that I also feel a 2 part primer (expecally epoxy) trumps anything in a spray can.

I will never use POR15 on anything, ever again. I used it once as a test on both sides of the truck I'm currently redoing and I can tell you 1st hand, that stuff is total CRAP! I did (rockers and cab corners) one side with just POR15 over rust and the other side I sand blasted and preped exactly as they said to and with every product they said to use and painted with POR15. I kid you not in 6mo.'s both sides were raw open rust and needed replaced. I will say the only thing I have found it is good for is fusing the lid shut on the can if any residue is left on the rim, you will have to distroy the can to get it open again. But i do understand your point with the referance.

I like MP&C's drill bit. I gotta make one of those. I take the panel back off after marking the hole and nipping the spot with a grinder or simular tool. I also take the panel I removed and put masking tape on the edge where the spot welds were and mark the tape, using it to transfer the exact location of spot welds to the new panel. Then put the tape on the new panel and use my Roper Whitney hole punch (model XX) to make plug weld holes drilling only where the tool is too big to fit or metal is too thick.
 
A handheld spot blaster also works good for cleaning the plug welds holes
 
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