Priming plan for a set of fenders?

MX442

MX442

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I've been lurking around here for a couple years, reading bits and pieces, and now trying to put it all together. Thanks to all that contribute here to give me confidence to attack my restoration. I am restoring a 1970 Olds 442. I started it with a frame off resto in 2006. I learned the hard way by starting the chassis resto with POR15. :eek: After learning that stuff is horrible, I moved on to the underside of the body and firewall using DP90 and a PPG eurethane SS black with flattener added. It looks great, but I didn't sand between coats and now have an eggshell texture that I'm not really happy with.

Now, I'm ready to do the fenders. Since I have left over SS black, and that is what I have on the firewall, it is probably what I will use. The paint I have is 6 years old, so maybe better off tossing it? After reading here about the SS hot rod black, I may sand out the eggshell texture and use SPI hot rod black on the entire engine bay and inner side of the fenders instead. So, first question, is that stuff compatible over PPG products?

As far as the fenders go, here's my plan. Metal work is already done. Next, strip to bare metal both sides with 80 grit DA. Apply 2 coats of SPI epoxy to both sides. I haven't figured out a plan to hang them yet so I can do both sides in one shot. Then fill the patch panel weld seams with filler the next day. ( I need a compatible RECOMMENDED filler to use). Then I plan to block out the filler only with 100 grit, then shoot a coat of SPI epoxy over the filler. At this point, they will be sealed off and waiting until I can finish the whole car.

Is one quart each of epoxy and activator enough to do 2 coats on the underside of the hood, engine bay, and both sides of the fenders?

Am I on the right track here? Any other recommendations for first time SPI'er?
Thanks!

Here's what I'm working on:
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If you want to go with SPI hot rod black, you could sand the PPG until it is smooth with 320 or 400 and then spray a reduced 1:1:1 coat of SPI epoxy (I would use black so it is black all the way though if you get any scratches or chips).

2 coats of epoxy then filler, and then another 2 coats of epoxy is the best way (as you mentioned). Just be careful about putting filler on the epoxy the next day. If temperatures are at all questionable, I wait 2 days.

From what I can tell, most guys on here use Rage Gold or Marson Platinum filler.
 
Nice project. Make sure to test fit the fenders, also a good idea to weld up any unneeded emblem and trim holes and locate the correct holes for the emblems you're using before you get far into the bodywork. I would order up a gallon kit of epoxy, sure there will be some leftovers but once you start using SPI epoxy you'll want to spray it on everything and I don't think two sprayable quarts would get the job done the way I use it. The PPG paint should be ok at 6 years if the can was sealed well but get some new activator or you could use SPI. Using SPI epoxy as a sealer on the repaint of those areas will add some durability/adhesion compared to just paint over paint. What primer surfacer are you using? Are you going to use SPI epoxy from start to finish? Any brand of filler will work, strum mentioned two that are good. Finish your filler work to at least 180 grit-considering the minimal amount of sanding there really is no good reason not to.
 
Your metal work looks very nice. Congrats on the patch panels.
For the PPG, my activator for DBU goes bad in less than a year, if unopened. I test it by mixing an ounce of BC paint with an ounce of activator and waiting 10 minutes. Bad activator makes very obvious clumps in the mixed paint. Good activator stays mixed after 10 minutes. That's what my paint shop jobber told me to do and it worked exactly as he described.
Best of luck. I finally learned how to spray SPI epoxy. I used to hose it on and had lots of problems with drips and craters. Now, I open my fluid control about 2.5 turns, increase pressure about 4 psi above gun reccomendations (for HVLP), and use light coats of epoxy. It covers in 2 coats (using white) and it is super durable. I absolutely won't spray BC without it as I've had adhesion problems putting BC directly on sanded primer. I know that shouldn't be a problem, but now SPI Epoxy is the glue I use under all my basecoats. Best of luck with your fun project.
Pat
 
The holes are welded up already, just not in the picture. I'm antsy to get spraying to cover the bare metal. The reason I don't want to buy gallons is because this stuff may go bad if it takes me 6 more years to get to the rest of the car. And, I'm undecided on how to finish the whole car. I can chip away at the bodywork, piece by piece, but I really don't have the talent, experience, or equipment to finish the job. I don't have a spray booth, expensive guns, or a gigantic air compressor. So, my overall "big picture" is to do the bodywork and panel alignment myself, then when ready to finish, I'll strip to bare metal and take it to a shop. However, the inside sheet metal and engine bay is small enough that I don't mind doing the finish paint by myself at home.

Last week, I stopped by a local paint store to pick up some other supplies and see what kind of filler, etc they had. I told him about my 6 year old paint, and he also said that would need new catylist and he would check the base material to see if it was still any good. Then I thought if I'm buying catylist anyway, I might as well switch over to SPI, instead of worrying about saving a quart of old material. On the other hand, I want to complete my engine bay, underhood, and core support with the same material so that it matches.

When I started this in 2006, I had a vision to finish it by summer of 2008. Where does the time go? And now, I don't know if I'll ever finish it.
 
MX442;27327 said:
So, my overall "big picture" is to do the bodywork and panel alignment myself, then when ready to finish, I'll strip to bare metal and take it to a shop. However, the inside sheet metal and engine bay is small enough that I don't mind doing the finish paint by myself at home.
Click to expand...

If you're stripping it to bare metal, sanding and cleaning it properly before shooting the SPI epoxy-then there's no need to ever strip this car again. What color is the car?
 
MX442;27327 said:
...
When I started this in 2006, I had a vision to finish it by summer of 2008. Where does the time go? And now, I don't know if I'll ever finish it.
Click to expand...
l don't know if this will make you feel better or worse. I stripped the paint off my '72 Corvette in 1983. I made it as far as primer in 6 years but I've been going backwards ever since. Right now the body is jacked up siix inches off the frame so I can strip and prime the frame with SPI black epoxy (need to get the Eastwood fluid off). Building a custom stainless exhaust system and modifying the body for a quad-outlet in the center of the car, under the license (like the new Corvettes). I'm hoping to finish before I turn 70 but that's only 18 months from now. For me it's the journey and doing this now is re-living my childhood.
 
Bob, the final color is platinum. (right fender in picture)

I think for now, I will get one quart each of SPI black and white, and epoxy the insides of the fender and cover the bare weld on the outside. Then, I'll hang them and work on getting the nose aligned with the doors. When I get to that done, I'll reconsider the final plan. I think that white epoxy will be the best choice for exterior to compliment silver base? That way if it gets rock chips, it won't be black underneath.

Will one coat of epoxy on the inside be adequate? Or should I spray two?
 
Shoot two coats of epoxy on the inside. I usually mask the rear fender flange shut-set the fender so it's resting on the rear with nose pointed up and pour some epoxy in behind the brace then let it set a few days-this way I know there's a good coating on the backside of those fender patches in the brace area where corrosion usually starts. White under silver- I would think grey epoxy would be better for showing rock chips less-you can mix epoxy colors to get the best shade.
 
Yes, I'll use gray. I didn't see that on the SPI list, but now I see they have it. Thanks for the tip on behind the brace. They will be primed before the brace gets spot welded back in.
 
I have come up with a plan.

Spray two coats epoxy. Filler over weld seam. Shape and sand filler to 180 grit. Spray one or two coats epoxy over filler. Done until ready to finish the rest of the car.

Questions:
What does it mean to spray "wet coat"?
When sanding to a grit, do you use every grit up to that point? 80, 100, 120, 150, 180? I don't think I'd have any paint left if I did that.
What brand paper do you recommend? Is dura-gold any good, or stick with 3m? Should i buy one roll of each grit up to 180?
Will laquer thinner or acetone clean the epoxy from my gun? I don't have reducer.
Can you hammer and dolly after epoxy if needed?

I was reading the sales sheets for Evercoat and Marson fillers. Evercoat rage gold says apply to bare metal and ultra is suitable over oem finishes. Marson says can be applied over ecoat. I'm leaning toward Marson because i can buy it in quarts and apply over ecoat. But, will any of them swell or shrink in the hot sun and be visible after final painting?

Thanks!
 
What does it mean to spray "wet coat"? Make sure the application is wet/heavy not thin and dry
When sanding to a grit, do you use every grit up to that point? 80, 100, 120, 150, 180? I don't think I'd have any paint left if I did that. you want to finish at a specific grit, the grits selected before that stage if any are dependent on how much cutting/shaping needs to be done
What brand paper do you recommend? Is dura-gold any good, or stick with 3m? Should i buy one roll of each grit up to 180? There's lots of good quality brands of paper available 3M is good
Will laquer thinner or acetone clean the epoxy from my gun? I don't have reducer. Lacquer thinner works fine
Can you hammer and dolly after epoxy if needed? you can do some light bumping but any major work especially hammer on dolly and the epoxy should be taken off that area
 
I'm fixin' to give this stuff a shot over the next week. SPI black epoxy on the backsides of the fenders and the radiator support. Questions: How much epoxy should I mix to shoot two coats? How hot is too hot to spray? It will be over 100 degrees for the next week. Planning on inducing the epoxy the night before, and shoot in the morning before it gets too hot.
 
I would mix a quart for the complete radiator support and back side of the fenders with two coats, usage is a bit dependent on spraying style, application thickness, and gun choice but I bet a ready to spray (rts) quart will be about right. You'll be fine spraying at 100* as long as you're indoors.
 
Thanks Bob, if I finish prep today, I'll spray in the morning. I'm planning on shooting 2 coats followed by 320 sanding to knock down the texture. Then one final coat of epoxy. Will a little bit of reducer in the 3rd coat make it lay smoother without any texture? Is PPG reducer compatible, or does it have to be SPI?
 
a little reducer will help sprayability, what PPG reducer?-they are not all the same. You'll want the first round of epoxy to cure up a 2-3 for the best sanding results. I'd plan on two final coats if you're adding reducer.
 
I finally sprayed the backsides of the fenders yesterday. I can't believe how well the black epoxy points out the flaws in metal work. Trying to spray in the nooks and crannies of a fender is a PITA. It has some pinholes, which I will assume is moisture in the air. I only have a disposable drier/filter at the gun.

Next, I have to figure out how to spray the radiator support. There are so many nooks and crannies that I don't know how I'm going to get good, even coverage. I think I will have to spray it in multiple sessions.

How long can you let the epoxy sit in the gun between flash times? I was dumping it back in the mixing pail. Then I would slosh some laquer thinner in the gun. After a couple hours, I would flush the gun with clean laquer thinner, blow dry, then stir/strain epoxy, and paint.
 
It's best not to leave it in the gun because it will start to settle after a while. So keep doing what you are doing.
 
Got 'er done. I still don't have the skill to spray a complicated piece. Any advice on how to spray this with all the angles? This is two coats. I plan to sand with 320 to get the towel fuzzies out, and then lay a third coat as a finish coat. Hopefully I can hit the thin areas with out getting the runs in other areas.

I'm still undecided on painting the whole car. I would have to upgrade my compressor, and build a better paint booth with ventilation. Also, I lack the experience to lay a show car finish. I need a "mentor" to guide me.

Lastly, I'm not convinced that breathing these fumes through charcoal organic vapor cartridges is safe for my health. I'm using a 3M full face mask with brand new cartridges, and still getting a headache and feel like I'm drunk. I'm wearing the mask before opening any paint cans. Is this typical, or all in my head? I painted the underside of the car and the frame 7 years ago only using a half mask and no goggles, and I don't remember feeling this way.

Anyway, here's the pictures.

 
If you are feeling that way, you really should STOP painting until the problem is resolved. An industrial hygienist can consult with you regarding the fit and appropriateness of your mask for the job. You may have a poor fit, or a defective part, or even have a sensitivity to the material.

I hate to even give you any advice on painting until that part is resolved, but what we all know and sometimes don't think about is that paint won't turn corners. So when you have piece like that with lots of bends, you just spray more and faster passes but follow the contours of the part so that in each area to be sprayed, the gun is kept as close to 90° to the surface as possible.

If you see trouble areas, spray them, then keep them in mind for the next coat. You might want to do all the hard spots first, then go over the whole thing like normal.
 
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