Prices/Rates

Triman8654

Triman8654

Newbie
Just curious, on complete paint jobs. Restoration quality. Do most of you give a grand total price.? Or do you just say Time and Materials.
I find most people just want a $ number that's close to the end bill total..

Am I crazy or just lost in my own time zone that $8K-$10k is bout as least you can charge to replace couple qtrs , epoxy, then 2-3 coats high build, block, seal, base,clear, buff.. All while using top shelf materials/Quality..?
 
I find that I have to do things by time and materials.. It's nearly impossible to quote something.. I also find that 8-10k doesn't go very far. I find that most shops in my area start out with what you described at around 12k.. If I'm going that far I typically like to put them on the rotisserie which would be even more.
 
If you have to give a hard number shoot high its always better to under promise and over deliver than to say it will be 8k and then have to ask for another 4k at the end. Another thing I have learned is that the guys who want to pay lower prices for a job (4-8k) will never be happy and will nit pick every little detail but the guys who dont blink at a 12-15k job are always happy at the end.
 
12-15k depending on what your labor rates are is going to be very average for a really nice job. This by no means is "show quality". I know you say restoration, but a lot of people throw that term "show quality" around without really understanding it. Everyone has their own idea of what show quality is, and the end result at 15k may very well be what the customer thinks show quality is...

But what I call show quality isn't what a lot of people in the area think is show quality. Show quality paints means exactly that. When you put it in a show, it is going to compete for the best paint job. You start getting into the finer details of every nook and cranny that adds up in labor hours. It all depends on what the customer wants and what the car actually needs. This superbird I am doing is a super nice car. Solid floors..solid quarters, all original metal, original paint. A piece of cake to do. But compare it to the 68 charger that has had every piece of sheetmetal replaced AND he wants it black.....2 different cars, 2 different prices.
 
over the years i have noticed the time plus materials has soured many guys on the idea. open end builds just are not popular anymore. and we all know why. when you pass driver into show quality all bets are off . 12-15 will not come close on a show job on a 50 year old car. it will be nice but flawed in places. you must separate metal work from the job as it is always a variable. a driver job is 120 hrs on prime and paint. double it for a show job . know your market and know your customers.
 
I'd like to flip this around, for you professionals what makes a customer easiest to deal with, but also have reasonable expectations? How does it work? Or do folks just drop the car off and say "do it" with no sort of estimation of time or price?

I am just trying to educate myself so that one day when I take a vehicle to a real professional like you guys I am not a colossal PITA :)
 
i dont accept the job, i accept the customer .. there are as many bad shops as bad customers. if you stay in this business you better learn to read people fast. same with choosing a shop. main thing is cross all t's and dot all the i's.
 
45-65 an hour depending on where you live, I charge 50
 
Raymond B, you said it.. Educate yourself.. As was said know there is a difference between sheet metal, and paint work..you can have the best painter but if he can't hang sheet metal, waste of mula.
One of my best customers was a car guy. He is on the mechanical side but definatly had an appreciation for the work that goes into a good quality paint and body job. Lots of good input.
 
I agree with triman,, My favorite people to work for are car guys.. A little understanding goes a long way, and it makes it a much more enjoyable process when you can discuss ideas.. If you are working for someone that knows nothing about their car it's hard to even ask them a question.
 
Airbrusharthart;n70998 said:
If you have to give a hard number shoot high its always better to under promise and over deliver than to say it will be 8k and then have to ask for another 4k at the end. Another thing I have learned is that the guys who want to pay lower prices for a job (4-8k) will never be happy and will nit pick every little detail but the guys who dont blink at a 12-15k job are always happy at the end.
Click to expand...


The issue I have with this is that when I quoted things I started shooting high and then I soon found out that I was way low.. I really struggle in this department now because it's nearly impossible to guess a final cost.. At this point when some one tells me they want a quote on a "restoration" I tell them that I can't give a quote and if they are afraid to spend 20k on their car we really don't need to discuss it any further. I also tell them that if they just want the exterior re-done, that it should be less if the body is as solid as they think it is.. Which is rarely the case. But I personally wouldn't call something like this a restoration. If it's not going on a rotisserie or at least coming off the frame it's not a restoration..

I also find that most restorations go past the body/paint work, which opens a whole different price point.

So in the end it's a loaded question so proceed with caution as you discuss the project with the customer.
 
shine;n71014 said:
i dont accept the job, i accept the customer .. there are as many bad shops as bad customers. if you stay in this business you better learn to read people fast. same with choosing a shop. main thing is cross all t's and dot all the i's.
Click to expand...


And shine nailed it on the head here, you have to be able to talk to the customer, and it's best if this person is someone you could become friends with through the process. It's just like going to work for someone, you need to be able to get along with everybody. If not it will be hard to make anything work.
 
Man I am really enjoying this thread! It's nice to see how other people run their businesses.

One thing I am always curious of is how many employees do y'all have or is it just you? And if it is just you, what all do you do? Like, just paint, or just doing metalwork, or a little bit of everything?
 
All my work is word of mouth.. Which is good...to a point. More often than not customers confer with each other (small towns) in the "how much did you pay" area..My corvette customer didn't understand the difference between his car and his buddies metal car.


I am a one man band. Metal work, Paint. Vinyl tops and headliners..
And then there's always the "Paint & Materials" issue.. That's probably a whole new thread..
 
Myself and a 16yo apprentice.. Most of what we do is time and materials. Part of the reason I take so many pictures is documentation of the work done.. For a full restoration like we're doing now, it's hard to lay a figure on the "paint job" portion, so I've been doing time and material there as well, and add a surcharge whenever the paint booth is used, to pay for the extra electricity, heating fuel in winter, booth filters, etc....
 
MP&C;n71041 said:
Part of the reason I take so many pictures is documentation of the work done.
Click to expand...

Yea ive found pictures go a long way when your explaining how you spent 20 hours fixing there rusted out fender.
 
W.A.R.;n71035 said:
Man I am really enjoying this thread! It's nice to see how other people run their businesses.

One thing I am always curious of is how many employees do y'all have or is it just you? And if it is just you, what all do you do? Like, just paint, or just doing metalwork, or a little bit of everything?
Click to expand...


I've always been up and down with help depending on what is going on in the shop. For the last few years it's been me, and autorodgirl in the office, and a helper in the shop. but now I'm up 1.5 workers. So I have including me 5 people helping out in the shop right now with one of them only working half weeks because he has a full time job. I assume I will be be down one less employee by the time spring hits with the current work load but you never know. It gets crowded in here with that many people, and I'm kinda against going any bigger unless things fall into place.
 
And the view from the customer side, absolutely! Those pics mean so much! But how much overhead is that on you guys? I've always wondered. You have to stop, take pics, edit, upload, etc, etc.
 
Interesting guys, I am a one man op. Sometimes I do get help from my buddy/neighbor but 98% of the time it's just me. With that said I only charge $30 an hour + materials and don't give estimates.....I'll put some pics up in the restorations section to show y'all what I'm not charging enough for lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top