Pig Tails

Bob Hollinshead;9709 said:
One thing that may help: knock off any dirt specks by hand sanding and clean the panel before starting the DA sanding, some of your dirt specks may be hard enough to act as an abrasive and once dislodged the sander just moves them around causing damage.
Click to expand...

Bob I found this to be my problem a few years ago.. My top panels would have far too much dirt to really sand them with a finishing disk first.. The dirt would cause mayhem for me once I started buffing.. Now i cut those panels with something like 400-600 first after my second clearing to remove the dirt, then step up to the finishing film disk.. It takes a while to remove those deeper scratches, but once they are gone... Problem solved!!
 
Bondoking;9723 said:
Bob I found this to be my problem a few years ago.. My top panels would have far too much dirt to really sand them with a finishing disk first.. The dirt would cause mayhem for me once I started buffing.. Now i cut those panels with something like 400-600 first after my second clearing to remove the dirt, then step up to the finishing film disk.. It takes a while to remove those deeper scratches, but once they are gone... Problem solved!!
Click to expand...

how many coats do you typically put on your "re-clear" and your initial clear?
 
3 on first application..

My second sessioin, I will put on 2

I dont over reduce the clear on the second session though.. however most guys will in fact reduce it, and/or reduce it more than it should per say to cut the solids down which in itself will eliminate most urethane wave.. The extra solvent isnt a concern for them since they are sanding and buffing

I also remove the dirt and stop, its not as if I am trying to level the clear at this point, as it is already leveled.. Then I jump to P1200 3M finishing film disk.. Its a large jump, but I can clearly see when the aggressive grit scratches are removed.. From there I go to 2000 and then 3000..

Some guys believe in slowly climbing up the scale in grits.. I see no reason to waste my time and sandpaper.. I personally see it as a waste, perhaps I am wrong, but this is how I do it and it works every single time
 
Im kinda like a Nascar driver when it comes to painting.. I put the hammer down and only let off when I hit the wall..

You will not see me post something like " I cant run the Universal like the Dupont/PPG/Sikkens/etc clear Ive been using " as many do on the forum.

I run every single clear I spray..

Im not bragging, like Im some kind of clear god.. Please dont mistake my comments for boasting, as they are not!!!!!!

Im simply saying this.. With the way I spray, reducing most clears, however not all, takes me out of the drivers seat and puts the clear in the drivers seat..

Every show car I have done in the last 6+ years was with the #4000 Universal.. So everything in my above post is in reference to it... I have used more of that clear than any clear I have ever sprayed by a long shot.. I personally think it sprays thin enough that it does not need reduction.. Even for a flow coat..

Solvents make or break how these clears spray.. Everyone raves about the MS for flow coating, however it is the same clear as the Universal with exception of the solvents..
The MS is actually 1% more solids than the universal, yet it sprays and seems to be thinner.. Is it thinner when speaking of solid content?? No, but the solvent choice makes it appear to be thinner.

Same with the 2.1 voc Universal ( #4100 ).. It sprays thicker than the 4.4 voc ( #4000).. However both of those are identical in solids.. The difference is the solvent choice used to create the mandated 2.1 voc compliance laws. The 4100 sprays totally different than the 4000... It sprays much thicker.. But wait.. Its the same resin content ( read solids )

Im rambling so I will stop..

The #4000 Universal doesnt need reduction in my humble opinion to lay out slick and flat on the flow coat..

The Euro 2020 and the #4001 Universal both need reduction to lay as slick for most painters, again in my humble opinion as say the #4000 Universal..

I am currently shooting the 69 Camaro in pieces with the 2.1 VOC Euro clear.. I am reducing this clear..

I find it sprays the way I like it with .5 to 1 part reduction and that is plenty..

When I shot it unreduced, I really had to hammer it, to get the clear to lay out as I thought it should, so I simply added minimal reduction to produce the results I needed..

I hope that answers your question and I apologize for my rambling,.. It is 4am after all :p
 
Thanks for the detailed response, BK. Are you saying that the painter will have more control if spraying unreduced? If so, I better not reduce it or the whole car is liable to run out of the garage on me.
 
Iv'e ran the Universal, but not nearly as much as I would the DC5100 I used to always spray.
 
strum456;9756 said:
Thanks for the detailed response, BK. Are you saying that the painter will have more control if spraying unreduced? If so, I better not reduce it or the whole car is liable to run out of the garage on me.
Click to expand...

That all depends on how you spray, your gun, the gun set up etc etc etc..

I know a person who reduces the universal at 20%+ and may get a couple runs or two.. For the most part, this painter is very successful with his process with the reduced Universal.. I would not do as well with it reduced as such, unless I curbed how I spray..

I should have wrote this in post #25 but I was sleepy:

I/You/Anyone... Can spray any clear at any solid level and not destroy the job and have it run off onto the floor.. When you understand how i like to spray, then its easy to understand why I dont reduce the #4000 Universal.. It doesnt mean I cant or never have reduced clears, it simply means I dont need to for my gun settings, and technique..

You cant judge how the clear will do until you have the gun time in hand with the product.. That is also why you see people say, practice panel, practice panel!!!! Clear is cheap in comparison to destroying a job with an unfamiliar product!
 
Another example..

I spent the last 5 years painting at FOMOCO.. Most everything is done with automation. However when automation goes down. You need human ( manual sprayers ) to back up the automation.. No company is going to set idle and wait for days to repair a robot and lose all that money..

I sprayed everything. Prime, Base, and Clear coat.. We sprayed interior door jambs daily with prime and backed up the rest as needed.. Which was weekly!

First time I sprayed Ford clear coat, I did it like I was home... BIG MISTAKE!!!! I layed it out slick.. It looked soooooooo good, or so I thought:rolleyes:. I was shooting the outside complete tailgate.. 45 minutes later my supervisor came in the booth in a panic.. Who is shooting these tailgates??? I was on an enviro break.. He said clear was sagged across the SUPER DUTY indentations and did not match the rest of the truck :p..

Long story short, my run of tailgates had to be sanded and re ran lol.. I had to spray those tailgates where they looked dry sprayed and peppered.. As they went into the oven it would flow together lay down, then as they finished their journey thru the oven it would match the rest of the orange peel..

That clear would also run easy if you were not careful.. I was also using a E-stat gun running @100lbs pressure with the trigger pulled.. Everything is done with 1 wet coat.. Just not too wet ;)

My point,, You can spray any clear at any solid level and with whatever gun set up.. It just takes some practice:cool:
 
Keep in mind that the temperature makes a big impact on spraying clear,
I generally reduce 20% when it's hot out, like 90 deg and above,
but at 70 degrees and below I never reduce it.
 
That would be really interesting to work at a place like that, BK. Factory jobs just have one coat of clear???
 
Everything is relative..

1 coat thru one of those guns I speak of, is the same as going thru the automation that hits the truck several times.. Imagine spraying with 100 lbs of pressure.. with a gun that is charging the paint ( E stat gun ) and when you pull the trigger with the air off it will shoot several feet out in front of you.. YES that is the fluid amount..

So if you take all that into account.. 1 coat I sprayed was actually more mils than the robots!!
 
Bondoking;9765 said:
Another example..

I spent the last 5 years painting at FOMOCO.. Most everything is done with automation. However when automation goes down. You need human ( manual sprayers ) to back up the automation.. No company is going to set idle and wait for days to repair a robot and lose all that money..

I sprayed everything. Prime, Base, and Clear coat.. We sprayed interior door jambs daily with prime and backed up the rest as needed.. Which was weekly!

First time I sprayed Ford clear coat, I did it like I was home... BIG MISTAKE!!!! I layed it out slick.. It looked soooooooo good, or so I thought:rolleyes:. I was shooting the outside complete tailgate.. 45 minutes later my supervisor came in the booth in a panic.. Who is shooting these tailgates??? I was on an enviro break.. He said clear was sagged across the SUPER DUTY indentations and did not match the rest of the truck :p..

Long story short, my run of tailgates had to be sanded and re ran lol.. I had to spray those tailgates where they looked dry sprayed and peppered.. As they went into the oven it would flow together lay down, then as they finished their journey thru the oven it would match the rest of the orange peel..

That clear would also run easy if you were not careful.. I was also using a E-stat gun running @100lbs pressure with the trigger pulled.. Everything is done with 1 wet coat.. Just not too wet ;)

My point,, You can spray any clear at any solid level and with whatever gun set up.. It just takes some practice:cool:
Click to expand...

BK. I never knew you worked for Ford, must be a good job!
 
Yeah.. The stories I could tell Bob.. Trim lines, front axle line, rivet lines, IP ( dash ) line and paint shop.. Now I am a union steward.. That is the term most of you will recognize.. We call them committeemen or to be PC committeeperson.. Ha.. Person.. Pfffttttt... But I represent the workers now daily.. Very interesting job to say the least!!
 
i think those pads are for buffing pads not sandpaper. just get a 3m backup pad. all the companies make backup pads. i have found ferro brand to really hold up the best, second 3m. mirka's are terrible.
 
yes that pad is fine. they have many. in addition to that one, j70516 and j70596 will aslo be fine. its much easier to choose if you download the pdf of their catalog.
 
[QUOTE='68 Coronet R/T;9655]When using my DA with 3M 1500 film discs and a 1/2" interface pad I seem to be plagued with pig tails. How are y'all preventing these?

Another question: What type of backup pad do I need for the Trizact discs? I have the hook-it 2 set up now and bought a 3M conversion pad for it but the discs only want to hook to the same side I need to adhere to the DA pad. Almost $50 out of pocket and I still can't use them. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Are the pigtails actual scratches in the paint, or just look like it.
I use the 3M finishing fil and noticed early on that the 1200 and 1500 grits would cause me to get what appeared to be pigtails.
Upon closer examination there were no scratches in the substrate, what I was seeing was a polished area in the shape of a pigtail scratch.
Wiping with a mircro fiber cloth and distilled water would easily remove them.
The cause in my case was the build up of the ultra fine sanding dust onto the film disc.
It appears as little pin head bumps.
These bumps are what polished the finish in the shape of a pigtail.
As Shind stated the cure was to change paper often.
I now use at least twice as many of those spendy discs, but the increase in sanding speed alone is worth it .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top