Panel repair / replacement Question for the Big Dogs

S

Senile Old Fart

1972 Dodge Dart Swinger, typical qp rust problems. Full skins and partial skins are available as well as a few patch panels.

My question to you Big Dogs is in the use of a partial skin.

I have read time and again on websites where people believe the retention of the oem spot welds in the trunk rail is a clue as to no panel replacement.

If using a skin and fitting it just below the top edge of the qp is a butt weld the proper techinique ? Are there other ways to do this ?

Thanks, SOF.
 
I am definitely not a big dog, but with the first gen Camaro, which probably has more patch panels available than any other model, the biggest pains were mating up the old panel at the tail lamp panel, and ending up having to repair what was left by the doors when the full panel would have replaced. Whether or not if you want to replace the full, the extra money for the full to get the corners, even if you use them as patches would have been money well spent for us. Do you think the car will end up having more value by making someone believe the panels were not replaced or making sure they knew there is not 40 plus year old rust under the paint?
 
[QUOTE='68 Coronet R/T;n78330]Woof! Woof, woof, woof and woof, woof. That's all I have to say for now. LOL[/QUOTE]
???
 
Tough call. I think I would rather do a full quarter if possible vs the skin, however this may lead to splitting the panels to get the gaps right between the door and trunk. If you go the skin route I definitely would butt weld the seam, and of course epoxy/seal the backside.

I know some guys have used a pencil eraser to duplicate the factory spot welds. This is something I'm wanting to try when I do the quarters on the Camaro.
 
I am not a professional but I restore at least 1 car a year.
When doing the quarter panels on my R/T I found the Goodmark panels were not very accurate productions. The side marker holes were off more than 2" from one side to the other and the body line crease down the passenger side was 1/4" off. It should have centered on the side marker hole but didn't. The AMD panels I used on another project were much better quality but more money.
Personally, I like to leave as much of the original metal in place as possible. As long as the major sections of the panel are not rusted or damaged then why remove them?
With the R/T I left the original side marker light holes in place and cut the skin to go around them.
LeftsidePrimed.jpg

Newquarterpasssidemarkerlight.jpg


I prefer to butt weld making sure to leave plenty of room between spot welds so as not to warp the panel, then just spot in between spots until the weld is solid. I grind down the inside and outside of the welds and epoxy prime.
WeldedMarkerLightArea.jpg

BackofWeldedQuarter.jpg

My welding skills have improved considerably since this car.

DriversquarterinEpoxy-1.jpg


LeftRearView-1.jpg
 
I used the same technique on this 65 Buick Convertible. They didn't make reproduction panels so I had to find a good donor.
Test fitted, aligned and planned my cuts.
QuarterSkinFitcheck.jpg

Stripped the panel and epoxy primed.
UsedQuarterStripped1.jpg

Tacked it into place.
QuarterInstallWelding.jpg

Ground the welds:
QuarterWelds2.jpg

QuarterWelds3.jpg

Epoxy primed again.
QuarterinEpoxyPrimerLH.jpg

Used polyester primer on this one:
LHQuarter-PolyPrimer.jpg
 
Coronet, did you use butt weld clamps on those butt seams? Do you prefer a wider gap to fill between panels like that?
 
'68 Coronet R/T said:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/jimjokjv/1965%20Buick%20Special%20Convertible/QuarterSkinFitcheck.jpg[/IMG]
Stripped the panel and epoxy primed.
UsedQuarterStripped1.jpg

Tacked it into place.
QuarterInstallWelding.jpg

Ground the welds:
QuarterWelds2.jpg

QuarterWelds3.jpg

Epoxy primed again.
QuarterinEpoxyPrimerLH.jpg

Used polyester primer on this one:
LHQuarter-PolyPrimer.jpg
Click to expand...
Nice work!
 
No, I haven't purchased any yet. I keep meaning to but . . .
That gap was the smallest I could cut at the time. I still haven't bought a Plasma cutter either.
Just a hack working in his garage.
 
lol. Me too. I have the clamps but they leave a gap of .050. They are advertised as .040 but the ones I got were wider than they advertised. I still wonder if .040-.050 is too large for .023 wire and 20 guage sheet metal? It looks like you did a pretty decent job of closing gaps .050 or larger.
 
The Coronet was the first time I did quarter skins so those are the biggest gaps I have had to deal with. The next time I test fitted the panel and drew a cut line on the new skin. Once I had that cut to size I refitted it and traced it with a pencil onto the quarter panel. I then cut to the inside edge of the pencil line (leaving the line on the quarter panel. I used clamps and vise grips to hold the new skin in place while tacking it. My first round of spot welds are about 3" apart while making sure the edges are lined up. Next round goes in between them and so on until I'm welding less than a 1/4" of seam to close it up.
Maybe one of the pros will chime in with a better way to do it.
 
Sounds like and looks like you did good R/T. Too add to what you did I also have an air gun at the ready to blow air on the fresh weld to cool it as quickly as possible to minimize warping. Cooling with cool air does help and you can see the metal slightly come back when you hit it with air.
 
I-Car has a good article on butt welding. Different options for experienced vs experienced welders. It says wider the gab, more chance for burnthru. Closer the gap, more chance of poor penetration and more chance of distortion.


Another process I have yet to master is cutting sheet metal with a cut off wheel. The metal gets hot enough on 20 guage to warp pretty easily. When I read articles about fitting patch panels by overlapping both pieces being fit, then making the cut, two things come to mine. The gap is going to be the thickness of the cutting wheel. In my opinion, thats risking blow out. Second concern is the heat distortion introduced by cutting two thickness of sheet metal together. That has to be a lot of heat.
 
I like to scribe and then just cut one of the panels, but if I was going to cut through both I would use a body saw.
 
chevman said:
I like to scribe and then just cut one of the panels, but if I was going to cut through both I would use a body saw.
Click to expand...
I did the double cut way once but the gaps end up being as wide as the saw blade. That is why I opted to scribe and cut the next time. Much better results.
 
I think the cut and scribe works best too. Once I got the scribe line, I cut close with cut off wheel then finished to bottom of line with bastard file. I love electric or air sheers, but limited to cutting straight lines (or at least thats all I have been able to master). I tried plasma with a guide but any tipping of the gun and your off the line far and fast. I like the idea of a body saw. Its one method I have not tried. I did try some spot welds with .023 gap or smaller and .023 wire. Very pleased with the results. No backing plate, no burn thru, and good penetration.
 
The easiest way for me to cut on the scribe line is to cut the metal within an 1/8"-1/4" of the scribe line, then use tin snips to cut right on the line. Tin snips seem easy enoug​h to use, but there are tricks to everything.
 
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