Millermatic 180 autoset welder

K

Klleetrucking

Promoted Users
First off I'm grasping at straws here while I'm waiting on the dealer to open.
I'm just a hobby guy trying to tack in some patches (20 ga.) and this is the first time I've dealt with this thin gauge metal. I actually was a production welder in a previous life so I do know how to weld,,, just the heavy stuff though.

My personal welder is about 11 years old but I doubt I've run 20 lbs. of wire through it in that time. I'm using .023 wire.
The problem is, in the lower settings (for thin gauge) the arc kind of "stutters" when it first starts then it'll work properly. It only lasts a few seconds but I don't think this is right. This happens in both the autoset and manual adjustment - 28/38. This sometimes results in a blow thru. When it works properly it's a joy to use. The welder works fine on the heavy stuff.

When I don't strike an arc and run the wire into the air you can hear the motor start and then speed up. As I said, just a couple seconds.
I've blown out the liner, changed tips and played with the adjustments to no end.
I did just think of something, I'll try running the motor without any wire and check it's function. That should eliminate the liner as the culprit.

Thanks for your time, Kenny
 
thats usually not a problem welding in patches, since its usually just little tacks all around until its closed. It has always been the tips or the liner from my experience. How old is the wire you are using? Sometimes it helps just running wire thru without a tip to get thru the length of the liner and seeing if it comes out straight. Then with the wire that is out slide your contact tip over it to see if it binds. You really wont have a problem with 20 ga if you use heavier wire.
 
Quick note. Talked to a dealer and a Miller Corp. tech a few minutes ago. It could get really expensive to search for the problem IF there actually is a problem.

I'll play with the .030 wire and see what happens.
 
Klleetrucking said:
Quick note. Talked to a dealer and a Miller Corp. tech a few minutes ago. It could get really expensive to search for the problem IF there actually is a problem.

I'll play with the .030 wire and see what happens.
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I thought Hobart was Miller stuff, but seems farther apart, I have hobart and a lincoln and I know the drive wheel on the hobart is reversable, it has 2 grooves cut in it, so that might be part of a problem. See if you can take your drive wheel off and see if it has 2 grooves and flip it around if it does. The tensioner might be down so far that its binding and there is still room in the groove for the wire.
 
You may want to try some .023” wire. You might have the feed rollers already (?)
Some machines work good on the low end with the .023”, some don’t.
 
So, the tips and rollers are definitely for .023"? Rollers are flipped the right way around for .023"? I hate to ask such basic questions, but maybe double checking wouldn't be a bad idea.

Typically, small wire results in better performance on thin metal no matter what the machine is, in my experience.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Is the arc stuttering or the wire feed stuttering?
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It's kinda' hard to tell Chris.
As I said the arc sometimes stutters on the initial hit then it welds fine.
For lack of a better description, it's like the feed wants a puddle then says "okay now I'll weld". All this takes about 2, 3 seconds but with this 20 ga. that seems like an eternity. To describe the audio it sounds like dot/dot, sizzle.
 
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I guess you know how to rule out regular feed problems, which is what it kind of sounds like your problem is. I wonder if, when in Manual Mode, the "Smooth Start" feature is still enabled or not. If you hear the motor changing speed without turning any knobs, you might have a problem with the automation.
 
Instead of replying to each post individually I'll go through what I learned today.

The double groove roller is correctly installed for .023 wire.
The correct .023 tip (new) is in the the gun.
Wire was purchased from a welding supply about a month ago.
Ground lug is tight to the clamp. But, it's the cheap stamped metal ground clamp that came with the welder. I'm getting a good clamp later this week, until then I'll try Vise Gripping the lug directly to the body. The ground is within 18" of the welding point.

Crash, I just saw your post about the "Smooth Start" in the manual mode. It has the same issue manual or autoset.
One thing I did notice is in the faster wire speeds the delay is way shorter. I wonder if there's a way to eliminate the Smooth Start?

Today, I talked to a factory certified shop and to his credit he was very honest and took the time to hear me out.
As I stated earlier he explained I could bring it to him but "I'll have to charge you for the inspection and may not find anything".
I appreciated his candor and honesty.
The Miller Corp. tech tried to help but he got way over my head with technical terms and such.
As metalman said, some welders don't like .023 wire in the lower settings .

I'll keep fiddling with this thing until I exhaust all options.

Thanks everyone, Kenny
 
I use .030 wire and find that faster wire speed and more heat with a shorter pulse of the trigger works best. I’m at 4-40 on my Miller 211. Try turning up the wire speed and heat.

Just want to make sure you are not trying to lay down a continuous weld on sheet metal. Use a series of tacks.

Far from an expert but this is what I find works best for me.

Don
 
dhutton01 said:
I use .030 wire and find that faster wire speed and more heat with a shorter pulse of the trigger works best. I’m at 4-40 on my Miller 211. Try turning up the wire speed and heat.

Just want to make sure you are not trying to lay down a continuous weld on sheet metal. Use a series of tacks.

Far from an expert but this is what I find works best for me.

Don
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Thanks Don, I might try that today. I've seen your method posted before.
No sir, I'm not doing continuous welds.
 
Klleetrucking said:
It's kinda' hard to tell Chris.
As I said the arc sometimes stutters on the initial hit then it welds fine.
For lack of a better description, it's like the feed wants a puddle then says "okay now I'll weld". All this takes about 2, 3 seconds but with this 20 ga. that seems like an eternity. To describe the audio it sounds like dot/dot, sizzle.
Click to expand...

Hold the gun in the air, pull the trigger and observe the wire feed, If it stutters it's a feed problem. If it feeds smooth then it's an arc/power unit issue.
 
Thinking about this a little more if the same thing happens every time then it is likely by design. Are you trimming your wire flush with the nozzle/tip? You should be. The slow feed at the beginning sets the stick out while purging the gas. Then it turns up the speed for the actual welding.

At least this is the theory that I came to after a few minutes of navel gazing. :)

Don
 
Success!
A big thank you to everyone and especially Don and metalman.
I changed the wire and tip to .030 and upped the speed and heat as Don suggested 4 - 40 for his Miller 211. I tuned mine in to 3.8 - 38 and it seems pretty good. None to very little delay and I'm now able to do short bursts to tack.

Metalman said "Some machines work good on the low end with the .023”, some don’t." He is right on point, for some cosmic reason my Miller 180 just won't work well with .023 wire in the lower heat settings.

Chris, I did hold the gun in the air and squeezed the trigger. It didn't really stutter, you could clearly hear the drive change speeds from slow speed to running speed. As I said this only took a second or two and subsequently that caused the initial arc to stutter. This was very frustrating and I was coming to my wits end trying to cope with it. I was developing a technique to get a tack then start the next one on top of that to get the arc going. This of course made some mountains of weld.

I'm relieved to get this resolved.
Again the power of the SPI FORUM helps a guy in need.
 
i have a 211 as well. mine slowly speeds up also. 1-2 seconds and you hear the feed get faster. i had an old 135 and if i remember right, that was the same. this has never cause me an issue though. i do use .03 wire. never tried the smaller stuff.
 
I have a 180 auto set and I think it works fantastic with.023 wire. With that being said, I believe the settings for welding thinner metal like 20 ga are based on welding a bead and not tacks so it is very low amperage and take a second to get heat in the metal to run smooth. When I am welding 20 ga my setting will be on the 16 or 14 ga settings so the trigger is pulled very quickly for a full pen tack which will make the heat affected zone very small eliminating warpage.
 
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