"Lazer Straight" body work just a myth?

Arrowhead

Oldtimer
So I'm just starting on a '57 Bel Air. The owner want's it black and it's going to be a trailer queen show car. His instructions are - "do it like it was your car". So that being said, I'm thinking ahead to how to align the body panels so they flow together. and are "lazer straight" But is that really possible? Each panel has an inherent crown, so normally I just work with and concentrate on gaps and that the panels meet at the same plane from top to bottom. But the panels ultimately reflect light according to their crown and so even with very well blocked bodywork, there is still "wave" panel to panel. Is it even possible or practical to have the flow of the panels smooth all the way front to back? I mean diminishing the crown will weaken the panel and possibly allow it oil can correct? And building up with filler is kind of cobby and just a disaster waiting to happen. Any inside tricks or tips?
 
Yes its possible, and without oil cans, but its not easy and not quick $$$$. Of course the panels are not as strong as the factory original, but not weak either, it just doesn't seem to be the problem you would expect. I think they put more bow in the mid 1950s cars than needed, the 60s also had 20ga steel, but not as much bow.

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Yes it surely can be done, "bin there, done that". Like Chevyman said it is not quick money by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you are being paid buy the hour and the owner is for real and fully understands what is involved, time wise, I would not take on the project with him expecting that.

When I did mine I had at least 26hrs guide-coat blocking and Re-priming (3 times) allowing each re-prime to sit at least 2mo. While I worked other panels. Now that 26hours is for just the prime time that did not include coating areas of the panel with putty and blocking that down, I see no way you can get that straight by metal alone there will be atleast a skim of it somewhere. Those panels are huge and require alot of time.

I did the exterior only (bodywork/paint) and wanted to keep track of my hours and lost track after 650hrs.
 
Wow, that's pretty awesome Chevyman, very impressive. That kind of metal work is way beyond my skill set, but that's the look I'm going for. Any tips or tricks on how to achieve that (or at least get me closer)?
 
Arrowhead said:
Wow, that's pretty awesome Chevyman, very impressive. That kind of metal work is way beyond my skill set, but that's the look I'm going for. Any tips or tricks on how to achieve that (or at least get me closer)?
I agree. Thats some impressive work.
 
Arrowhead said:
Wow, that's pretty awesome Chevyman, very impressive. That kind of metal work is way beyond my skill set, but that's the look I'm going for. Any tips or tricks on how to achieve that (or at least get me closer)?
Thanks guys
I just kind of stumbled along doing this, learning as I went, so you may find other or better ways to do the same thing.

I will tell you some of the things that I did and you can use anything that might be helpful.

You have to keep in mind that tri-5 chevys has always been my choice so I have an ample supply of parts if I mess anything up---and I did, but also the fit of the parts can be different on every panel you try, even with GM parts. Some of the original 1/4 panels lend themselves much better for this than others.

One of the problems with original 57 fenders is caused by that huge front bumper, if the bumper corner hits anything, it gets pushed into the fender causing a bow that runs from the gold louvers down to the wheel opening, and its almost impossible to straighten without being pulled. If you are aware of it, then you can see a lot of top show cars with that damage. That is an area on the repops that is right on. Another problem that some of the original fenders have is that the rear lower part turns outward, but it just needs to release from the brace, then it can be twisted back in shape, but or course for every action there is likely to be a reaction. Being able to remove the panels, including the 1/4s, helped tremendously. I drilled locating holes to keep my alignment right, because these older panels are adjustable in every way possible, so the alignment holes are absolutely necessary.

After locating the parts that fit together best for what I wanted to do, I started out on the door fender seam by aligning the fender with the rocker and cowl. Then used a slide hammer to pull the front edge of the door out as much as I could get away with, and after removing the fender brace, the fender was made to match the door edge then screwed the fender flange to its brace. The door latch at the back of the door was adjusted out as much as possible, and the front edge of the 1/4 panel was loosened and made to match the door edge. The more these all come outward, the less there is to shrink.

I don't have a lot of experience with the shrinking disc, but I can not see how you could have enough control over it to do this.

I started all the shrinking at the highest point in the panel (the middle), and kept doing the highest point, and that caused a wave to the front and rear, and that wave filled in the low area of the door caused by pulling the front edge out. I did all the shrinking with a stud gun, first long trigger pulls, and at the end there were times when the trigger pull was ever so slight--I was a stud gun master by then--LOL

I didn't have a radius sweep that the metal shapers use, just used my hand and then a 3 foot rigit straight edge to pin point the problem areas that I could feel. Just rolled it along, checking every direction that the roll was consistent without highs and lows. When the panel gets close to what you want, the straight edge will find slight problems that you can't feel.

If you haven't used your hand much, then I will say that my off hand is more sensitive, and I find that changing my position while feeling the panel sometimes tells me something that I missed, such as seated-vs-standing, facing-vs-back to it, standing on the left of it-vs-standing on the right.
 
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I realize this isn't a 55/56/57, but has similar crowns to the door and body. It is possible to get lazer straight, by using the above methods and whatever else needed to accomplish it. The biggest challenge is staying with it until it's right.......it won't be quick or easy. There is very light skim of filler on this door, no where more than 1/16th and most areas none. Good luck with it, be patient and tell your customer to check the depth of his wallet...........Billimage_4436.jpg
 
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Excellent explanation Chevman. Everything you explained is exactly how I do it except you got it with metal only, wow.
Now there is no shame in not getting a project to this point.
If ones skill set can do it just as importantly the person doing it has to be in full concentration at all times and have the patient's of 10 saints. You can burn yourself out real quick.
Using putty to correct things is IMO just fine provided it is not crazy thick, the project can still swell your chest with pride, my did and I didn't get my metal like that, there was help used in spots but still was laser straight and smooth as glass. I had to turn out the nuts on the t-bolts so they didn't distort the work I had done. Mine didn't have any issue with panel seams showing any bowing I might have just got lucky.
I would say do the best metal work you can and apply the needed help and the job will still be something you can be proud of.
 
Thanks for all the replys and thanks for the explanation Chevman. Not sure how I will proceed as the car already has had some bodywork done to it with a mish mash of new quarters and new front end and original doors. The quarters were smoothed with filler already so I have to get into it some more to see what I've got.

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I think Fred (chevman) is more of an artist than a metal worker. LOL He and Chad Sperry are in another league altogether IMHO. While I love seeing their work I can't imagine the amount of labor I would have to bill just to get one door looking that nice.
 
Good lord Chevman, that looks exceptional!! Hats off to you.. And Arrowhead get a thread going, I like watching your work.
 
I haven't ever gone to the length of taking factory crowns out of panels like that. It looks really good and it's super cool, but in most cases, 99.9% of people can't even see what you are talking about, and of the 0.1% that can tell the difference, very few have the deep pockets required to achieve the look.

chevman. do you have any idea how many extra hours per panel it takes to get the ultra straight look? I'm guessing 10-15 hours additional on average per panel, which in our shop would add between $3000 to $4500 doing both sides, on top of the $10000 or so it usually takes to get a body straight enough to paint...
 
Doing this gave me a lot of self satisfaction, but I agree crash, and I hope the info I gave will help Arrowhead convince his customer not to do this. Remember, one of the first steps in my procedure was ruining a perfectly good door skin. I'm retired, so doing this when I can, keeps me busy and happy.
 
That kinda work is a true talent, compared to that I'm just a hack. They should be proud of it! Please dnt think I'm calling others a hack just me. I enjoy the many others here as well.
 
Well I've done some "destructive testing" on the existing bodywork to see whats under there. Well I don't want to bash whoever did it but lets just say the crown of the panels is the least of my worries.

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Once you remove the bondo sculpting you may find the actual crown not all that bad.
The sad part is the owner paid for that and now he will have to pay you to remove and fix it.
 
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