Getting close to paint on the hot rod - how is this approach?

Arrowhead

Arrowhead

Oldtimer
I'm going to base everything in metallic silver and add a two color candy flame job over the silver. I'm just a little nervous about the sequence and windows for all the work - plus I have a day job so it have to time it just right. I'm using PPG DBC Vibrance base and candies w/ activator for all three colors. My supplier was very specific that I need to obey the spray windows or I could get lifting.

So here is my plan.

1. base 3 coats

2. clear 2 coats

3. tape out and mask first color flame, remask and repeat for second color

4. pinstripe flame outlines

5. clear all over 3 more coats as needed to bury graphics smooth

Here are my concerns:

They were adamant that I need to clear any work within 24 hours. I know I could layout the graphics right on the base, but I don't see me getting all the graphics done in time to clear everything in the 24 hr window (it will probably take a day just to layout the graphics). Plus if I clear all over when I'm done with the base, any screw ups in the graphics can be repaired without damaging the base color.

But when I clear over the graphics, I'll have to spray everything and have a lot of buildup which isn't good either.

Just trying to think this though in my head so I can plan accordingly. Any input would be appreciated.
 
Silver base then two coats of intercoat clear, mask and spray your flame colors (candies?), do your outline/pinstripe, clear complete-no chance of lifting problems. SPI intercoat will work well or PPG DBC500. Intercoat will make for a nice surface to mask on and also easier to keep clean-you can use it as a final step for each basecoat application if needed. Sand and reclear if you're burying tape lines/doing flow coats.
 
Well that's what I was thinking. But I asked my supplier and he said it's still a basecoat and should still need to be cleared over in 24 hours so that's not helping to extend my time frame (I checked the tech sheet on the SPI intercoat and it confirms that). Not saying it's not a good idea, it would make my graphics easier to do, but not sure I can bang the whole job out in 24 hrs.
 
Talk to JimC about recoat times, he's pushed it farther than anyone I know. One thing with PPG's candy basecoat system is you end up with a lot of coats which equals a lot of solvent so it really is a good idea to let it breathe awhile before your clear. I did one Global Radiance Candy job that had some solvent pop and dieback issues because I did it all in one day. The Gold base took 7 coats to cover and then 7 coats of the wine colored candy base went on (D895 intercoat with Dye is all it is) and then I made the mistake of clearing it the same day. If you are worried about the recoat window you can spray one coat of intercoat or DBC500 over it and the recoat window opens again for another 24hrs. Even if the base is a week old-shoot one coat of intercoat and your recoat window opens back up. Make sure to catalyze your basecoats for durability. DBC will not lift-period. Your supplier's advice to adhere to recoat times in an effort to reduce the chance of lifting pertains to the clearcoat-if you shoot the flames over fresh clear there is a chance of lifting if it's really fresh. There's far more adhesion failures from clearing too soon than late.
 
A guy I know who does a lot of multi color jobs that take a week plus to complete just uses an adhesion promoter if the base sits longer then 24 hours.
 
when doing custom work where there are alot of coats you almost never want to clear in 24 hours. like bob said it takes 24 hours to get the solvent out of a candy job. 24 hours is fine from the point of the last color being sprayed. look at any custom job out there, not just mine. do you really think that anyone is so fast that any of that is done in a 8-10 hour work day. some jobs have hundreds of hours in them over weeks. basecoat is not a cross linked paint so when its dried for a long time solvents will still bite into it no matter how you look at it. the longer a solvent sits on it the more it will bite in. you should just be sure to use a slow, hot clear. for doing your car this time of year the universal clear with the very slow activator is what you want anyway. the 2.1 uv clear is even slower than that. believe me you can spend a week or two doing your flames and you will never have a chipping problem. remember that tech sheets are written for bodyshops to be able to get stuff out the door as fast as possible without issue. they are not written for custom work. you can also put a coat of intercoat over each base color/layer then when dry just scotchbite it a little.
 
Bob Hollinshead;8953 said:
Will you be brushing the stripes/outline on?
Click to expand...

Yes, one color is HOK for striping and the other is a basecoat color so clearing over them should not be a problem (no one shot enamel). I kind of wanted that authentic hand pulled stripe look.

I agree with the coverage, the test panels I've sprayed have taken quite a few coats to get the color depth. That's one thing I'm trying to avoid is too much film thickness.

This a test panel I did, more for color than for application. I got a junk fender that I'm thinking I should do a full blown mockup paint session on to make sure my process will work.

100_2352.jpg
 
Jim C;8968 said:
when doing custom work where there are alot of coats you almost never want to clear in 24 hours. like bob said it takes 24 hours to get the solvent out of a candy job. 24 hours is fine from the point of the last color being sprayed. look at any custom job out there, not just mine. do you really think that anyone is so fast that any of that is done in a 8-10 hour work day. some jobs have hundreds of hours in them over weeks. basecoat is not a cross linked paint so when its dried for a long time solvents will still bite into it no matter how you look at it. the longer a solvent sits on it the more it will bite in. you should just be sure to use a slow, hot clear. for doing your car this time of year the universal clear with the very slow activator is what you want anyway. the 2.1 uv clear is even slower than that. believe me you can spend a week or two doing your flames and you will never have a chipping problem. remember that tech sheets are written for bodyshops to be able to get stuff out the door as fast as possible without issue. they are not written for custom work. you can also put a coat of intercoat over each base color/layer then when dry just scotchbite it a little.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim, maybe I'm just overthinking this. I think the part I can't get my head around is if I spray the silver base, I thought I was supposed to scuff if it sits for more that 24 hours (which I really can't becuase of the metallic). So maybe using the intercoat like Bob and you suggest will allow me to scuff when I'm ready to clear without damaging the metallic.

DAY ONE
1. base 3 coats

2. INTERCOAT clear 1 coat

DAY TWO / THREE
3. tape out and mask first color flame, intecoat

4. remask and repeat for second color, intercoat

5. pinstripe flame outlines

DAY FOUR/FIVE
6. clear all over 3 more coats as needed to bury graphics smooth
 
Yes that is fine. Only thing is you dont want to pinstripe on the base. Once the flames are down you need to clear with usually about 4 coats. Sand smooth then pinstripe and reclear. Another thing is if your base color is a candy you need to clear over and sand it smooth before any artwork. If you dont the candy will bleed into anything that goes on to especially if your going with a blue. Not in every case but most of the time i would spray tue background last. One set of flames go down then mask them away. Next set of flames go down and mask them away then the background color goes down. Thats really the fastest way to go about it. Smallest color first.
 
Good deal, the silver is the base for the blue and orange candy, that is why I set it up that way, one less step.

Can I pinstipe over the intercoat?
 
You can pinstripe over the intercoat or even basecoat but you should really stripe over s smooth surface or you will still see the paint edge. When you cut and buff too it will knock that edge off leaving a hairline down the center of your pinstripe not to mention the striping will come out much cleaner, more straight and even over clear. Hard to pull clean lines with a paint edge screwing with the brush.
 
OK cool, I ordered a gallon of intercoat so i'll give that a whirl.

The only thing I'm stuggling with is do I have to clear over the whole car everytime? That will be like 6-7 coats of clear when all is said and done - and a lot of sanding. Can I just clear the area where the graphics are to build materail and then clear all over once the graphics are done?
 
I got all the panels painted silver Sunday and then clear coated last night. I did a test fender with the silver with intercoat and two color flames and noticed some issues so to be safe, I decided to go ahead and do three coats of clear instead of intercoat. I'm going to go ahead and cut and buff everything and then see where I'm at. That way I can just leave it silver for now and do the flame job next winter or go ahead and do the flames now. I'll see how long it takes to get everything cut and buffed and then decide.

2011-06-28_06-38-14_467.jpg
 
Well, when I tried to fix any mistakes on the pinstripes, the reducer would lift the intercoat too. I tried to cheat a little and like JimC already pointed out, pinstriping without clearing and sanding the edges of the colors, the edge will stick up through the pinstripe. Also, I had tape residue and intercoat didn't seem to like being wiped down w/ a prep wipe. It got stickey and still left a film - weird.

I'm really leaning toward putting the flames off until next winter, I hate to rush that and I'd rather get back on the road for the little summer that is left. If I do it now, I could just flame the hood and hood sides. It would bring some color in but not be a huge project (I had every intention of going down the whole side of the car) where I'd have to cut and buff the whole car again.
 
Ive learned that lesson well. I thought I would try to rush a job by pinstriping over intercoat. WRONG! Until I become a pro at pinstriping I will always clear before laying a brush on it!
 
I am going to be spraying some colors tuesday on a project, but I have to order the clear on tuesday also. I have 4 colors to lay and thats gonna take a day. I plan on using the the euro clear.

Should I spray an adhesion promoter if I dont get to laying clear until 3 days later?

Using dupont and diamont bases.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top