Epoxy update.

Barry

Barry

Paint Fanatic
Staff member
I have had a few situations over the years, like the one last week, where someone would say I had this frame in the sun for a couple years and its perfect but this piece in the sun and the epoxy is fading after three-6 months.

One guy a few months to six months ago, I said are you sure it was not another brand as none of this made any sense to me and just kind of shrugged it off.
Maybe, I would get 2-3 calls a year like this.

Well yesterday, I spent about two hours on the phone with one of the largest epoxy resin manufacturers and this chemist gave me an education like no tomorrow.

Here is what I learned, that I did not know.

The epoxy did not fade, the epoxy blushed, for moisture trapped in it when it was sprayed, most likely very high humid conditions and the temperature was just right at the time, probably hot, or excessive water in line.
The water will cause a fading effect as the piece sets in the sun after 3-9 months, inside or on a frame it will never show up but it is their.

Here is what I learned!
Step on to help avoid this, let the epoxy induce 30 minutes.
Also, as I felt comfortable with the guy I gave him my formula and he also said the Acetone, can add to this problem and he felt I was using a bit on the high side.

So the an adjustment was mad to the epoxy activator we packaged yesterday and the batch number is 8/29/11.
We reduced the Acetone by 85%, increased the Alcohol by 5% and added another solvent in place of the Acetone.

You will not notice any difference in how it sprays or drys, only thing you may notice is a sweeter smell with the activator.

Also, I have on order 10,000 lbs of a different Amines that should be a little clearer and not as likely to darked as it sets once opened, although the color does not affect anything, I do get a lot of concerned calls, here again this will change nothing but the clarity and cost me a few more bucks but I think its a good buy.

From here on out we are going to request an induction time for the epoxy and as me make new catalogs and labels we will change the reading, to state such.
 
Just to clarify;

Epoxy we have now needs a minimum induction time of 30 mins ?
 
Yes, some of us have been doing this because it does make it spray better and we have always recommended it in cool weather to help with the drying. Is it required to work, NO but can it help, YES.
 
But if we are essentially using it as an undercoat without reducer...no real real reason to induce? Just trying to clarify a bit more...totally understand the reason for inducing and i always do especially if using it as a topcoat or sealer before paint.

Another note, this is what makes spi great. Barry just admitting he just got schooled......you think these chemists in for the big guys would ever admit that they DO NOT know everything? LOL. We are all humans.
 
It was the resin companies, years ago that said no longer need to induce, because shops were bitching about waiting, now he tells me nothing has changed and it really does work better in a number of ways, if the epoxy is induced.

I heard enough from him to know, that is going to be my standard recommendation from here on out, as this epoxy is to good (he was impressed, also) to short cut it, to save a few minutes.
 
I hope giving away the recipe doesn't hurt down the road. I always induce, and if I'm using it for a surfacer I often mix it a day in advance so it thickens.
 
well there you have it How many others would do this?NONE!

thanks Barry!

i have always let my epoxy set for at least 1 hour before spraying,even if i use it as a undercoat or sealer.

and yes hopefully you trusted this peep with your Formula?

thanks again Travis.
 
Another interesting thing I learned about acetone aside from it being hygroscopic is that it can cause embrittlement of polycarbonate (Lexan). This is the stuff our headlight lenses are made of. I will be using only 870 and slower to do Lexan, because the 860 seems fast enough that it probably has a good % of acetone. I know the clear has it in it too, but what can you do?
 
Great info Barry!
Are you going to put the induction time in bold type? Anyone who has used a product before normally either speed reads the label or doesnt read it at all.
It sure wouldnt hurt to make it noticable for current and new users.

You might think about some stickers to put on the current labels stating the required induction time ?
A nice starburst stating for best results always induce for 30 minutes, put it on the lid of each can that gets the current label.
Then phase in the new label with or without the starburst sticker on the lid?
 
Dry time will stay the same you say, but what about cure time and re-coat window?
 
C10chas-- NOTHING changes.

Guys, great idea, I will have them put stickers on all the gallon cans Tuesday--center and top!

RE Formula, I did not give him everything but enough for him to know what I was doing, does not know enough to hurt me but just enough to screw someone else up if he gave them any info but these guys are pretty trust worthy, you just never give info to the salesman that calls on you and we don't even let them go in the plant, only the offices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top