i have been looking forward to my next project(of who knows what) but i am quite intrigued by the candies. In my travels of the interwebs I have come across the HOK urethane kandies(pretty much a basecoat to be applied over basecoat i believe) the HOK,SEM, and a couple of others candy concentrates, and a pearl candy
My question is, what are the differences between these? I have read that the contrates are not colorfast in some places and that they are in others and that the pearl is not a true candy and that even with the concentrates that the clear will determine how long that the candy will hold up in the sun etc.
Im sure this is a whole can of worms here but I am honestly confused as too these products. it seems to me, and what id like to do, is that if the concentrates would hold up in the sun that they would be prefferable to mix in barrys intercoat but then again i am not really sure of any of these products.
ok the pearl candy is just a name that company gave a type of pearl they carry. it is not a candy so forget all about that.
candy just refers to a transparent dye based color. there is no ground up mineral in it as a pigment. most candys avail are lightfast but not as much as an opaque pigment base color. candys will fade over time and need a good clearcoat over them with good uv inhibitors. i have candy jobs i did 10 years ago on bikes that see a ton of use and i notice only extremely small amt of fading if any using the spi universal clear. now if it was on your car that sat outside 24/7 and you lived in florida i prob would not do a candy on it. as for the different types, they are all the same dyes. only difference is what they are mixed in. the concentrates are straight dyes and need to be mixed into a binder. urethane candies are already mixed into a urethane clearcoat. you dont see these too much anymore. they have kinda faded away. most people now use basecoat type candies. easier to work with and less solvent trapping. probably not quite as durable though but still not bad. rm's carizzma line is all candies mixed into a basecoat binder. the concentrates can be mixed into spi intercoat to make basecoat candies as well. be warned, candies looks the best out of any type of paint but nothing looks worse than an bad candy job. its the hardest thing to spray correctly and get right.
I knew you'd be the man Jim. I was planning oh honestly just buying one type and playing. Maybe a mailbox or my garage fridge. Maybe a car down the line. Thanks for all the help sir.
yup thats the way to do it. get some concentrate and spi intercoat then start playin with it. small items are easier since you wont see the blotchiness so much
Don't get confused on the different types of candy. There are some such as in the HOK line that are called "KBC" - Kandy Base Coat. These already have pearl/metallic mixed in with them, so not really a true candy. Then you have the concentrates like jim talks about. The best look you can get is from the concentrates, though harder to spray and get to look right than the KBC types. My experience is with the Shimrin line, so not sure how the Shimrin2 line works.
I would jump all over the basf stuff if I had a jobber even romotely close but nothing around me here so my best option is to mail order the hok stuff.
I do have another question tho. I see that silver and gold seem to he the standard to candy over but I believe I had seen a post by jimc somewhere about painting a color a couple shades lighter/darker for the base. Does this improve coverage or hide the flaws or maybe both? Does a candy have to go over a matched color or could a contrasting color base be used to achieve a flop effect or no??
Thanks again for all the help.
Maybe one of these days if I'm ever in new jersey I'll have to come bother you in person! Ha!
you can put candies of whatever color you want. putting them over a similar color or one just slightly lighter than the final color your looking for makes things quite a bit easier. you can mix the candy way less strong as far as color is concerned and put on 1/2 the amt of coats. all of which will help you get a candy job with alot less blotchy look. in many cases i have taken silver and poured my concentrate into that for a base color. the hok concentrates are great and probably the way to go. just be sure and mix em into the spi intercoat and not the hok stuff.
I only buy non spi when I have too. I have even contemplated just buying toners as I need them....
Excellent was my plan. Maybe a base of bright silver metallic with a dash of koncentrate mixed in (2-5% I'd say??) Then over that intercoat w/ concentrate, then clear.
One more question for now, how is the recoat window on the intercoat w/ candy. I know lengthening the recoats on normal clears as I understand has no detrimental effect and I generally wait a few extra minutes between coats just to be safe; but on the intercoat candy should it just flash before the next coat so it can I assume remelt into the last coat or does it matter if it dries?
the intercoat clear is just clear basecoat. spray it like any other base. let it flash 10 min and goto the next. once all the color is on let it sit overnight then clear it. for the silver mix, you would be surprised how much you have to add to darken it up. 2% would come up a super light and pale pink. remember the color wants to be just a few shades lighter than your final color. adding candy to silver can be good but you can also end up with a transparent mix. not always though. depends on the paint system and the concentrates.
Excellent. I think I'm beginning to understand Jim. Its pretty much a off the cuff. I think maybe for a first project maybe my garage fridge or toolbox, if it comes out too crappy sunlight will never hit it and most won't ever know.... Ha!
I personally don't like candies on a complete vehicle.. Probably mostly because of one specific shop locally that does them on quite a few cars.. They are all caprice's and similar cars with lift kits and 26" wheels.. Kinda ruined it for me with candies.. But I still like it for smaller things like bikes or graphics, a candy in a graphic and add a lot of character.
One thing i've been wanting to play with is adding candy into the base.. for instance if you have a dark blue that has a decent amount of metallic in it, if you add some blue die to the formula I would think it would make the metallic in the formula look blue vs the typical silver sparkle you are use to seeing.
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I personally don't like candies on a complete vehicle.. Probably mostly because of one specific shop locally that does them on quite a few cars.. They are all caprice's and similar cars with lift kits and 26" wheels.. Kinda ruined it for me with candies.. But I still like it for smaller things like bikes or graphics, a candy in a graphic and add a lot of character.
One thing i've been wanting to play with is adding candy into the base.. for instance if you have a dark blue that has a decent amount of metallic in it, if you add some blue die to the formula I would think it would make the metallic in the formula look blue vs the typical silver sparkle you are use to seeing.
I agree chad. Seems the candy has lost its novelty due to over application and tackiness, I also think the character of a ride could make it acceptable tho. I had moved thought of using a concentrate in a base that way. I wonder if one were to spray a blue base for instance and then an intercoat with the pearl/metallic and concentrate in it if it would give the same effect?? You would know better than I?
I would think that would get blotchy by nature, but could be interesting to try, and most metallics as they are on a mix machine are mostly just silver toners, so therefore adding a candy to a silver toner will just alter the color of the toner.. I'm not sure how a candy die would mix with a pearl. I think it would take away from it's color shifting but I really have no idea on this one.
When you combine the flake with the dye you lose the candy effect and depth IMO. Shoot your blue base, then a few coats of intercoat with the silver flake added, then shoot your candy.
When you combine the flake with the dye you lose the candy effect and depth IMO. Shoot your blue base, then a few coats of intercoat with the silver flake added, then shoot your candy.
When you combine the flake with the dye you lose the candy effect and depth IMO. Shoot your blue base, then a few coats of intercoat with the silver flake added, then shoot your candy.
