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Basecoat doesn't match. What would you do?

#1
I've been ordering my basecoat online with success. My issue is that it takes awhile to get. I shopped around many suppliers locally and got pricing anywhere from $60 a quart to $270 a quart.

This place I ordered from does motobase lv and valspar low VOC basecoat. I wanted the paint in motobase but they said the paint codes J7 and UX don't exist in motobase? Only in valspar which makes no sense because these are common Ford colors...

The place is about an hour from me in a really bad area so I had them ship me the paint. I got it today and I noticed it looked off just looking at mixing stick. I had a scrap part laying around that I taped in 1/2 to see the color and it's off by alot.

It's significantly darker and greener...The paint I've ordered in past has always been really close. This is first time I ever had something off like this. Is this considered normal? The other color I ordered appears darker also.. I paid $135 for both colors in quart shipped...

Should I eat the cost or should I complain to them? Here is a picture. The color on the right side is dead on accurate. I think it was Matrix paint from the other supplier.
 

Attachments

#3
The old paint was sprayed last week...I accidently burned through while denibbing and ran out of paint. I ordered this new paint and it looked off so I ran piece tape down middle to do comparison.

I sell alot prepainted parts online and with the old batch of paint I never got a return for color mismatch...This new color is way off ughhb
 

texasking

Active Member
#4
Was the old batch of paint the same brand as the new batch? If yes, then they screwed up the mix. If not, chances of 2 different brands matching each other are worse than winning the lottery, well almost:).
 
#5
I've ordered this paint from 3 different sources so far in past all in quart(s). One was a Matrix brand, another was sherwin williams paint, the other i'm not sure what brand it was. They were all pretty close. Close enough that when I paint a part its "close enough" to pass.

This paint looks way off, I brought it to a dealership and it didn't even look close to the color. I understand there is variances etc. This seems extreme?

Do you think I should ask the supplier for my money back or replacement? Not sure what to do...
 

texasking

Active Member
#6
It looks like they screwed up the mix, either too much green shade blue or they ran out of magenta! That J7 is not an easy color to match, and Ford colors are all over the place, anyway. If you have been ordering paint by color code and it has been "close enough", you are luckier than me. It wouldn't hurt to contact the supplier, but good luck getting them to own up to making a mistake. There is no way a supplier can guarantee a dead panel match, but they should be able to mix the same code and it come out the same every time. Ask them to mix you a little more, and see if it matches what they sent you the first time. My guess would be probably not, and they probably don't care, especially not having to deal with you in person. If you are going to mail order paint, get Chad S. on this forum to mix it for you.
 

Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
#7
Complaining will do no good. Most jobbers will not return custom mixed colors, especially for a low volume customer. More than likely you got one variance or the prime color the first time and this time someone mixed vice versa. As far as variances go it's not that extreme. I could blend that to where you wouldn't see the transition. You need to count on blending whatever you get, else it will look strange, if you tape it like you did in the picture.
As for the colors not existing in Motobase....that is probably a load. UX is one of the most common late model Ford colors. You got a lazy jobber. Look for a new one. You live in an area where there are a lot of choices. Take your piece into a jobber and visually match it up. Ask to see the variant deck to verify you have the proper color. That is the only way to be sure.

Axalta has a lot of Jobbers in your area. If they have it ask for Cromax Mosaic, I've used a lot of that in the last three or four years and have been very impressed with the color match. If they can't mix Mosaic one of the other Cromax lines would work well.
Axalta, BASF. Sikkens Wanda are all within an easy drive.

https://wandarefinish.us/distribution/
https://www.axalta.com/us/en_US/distributor-locator.html
http://refinish.basf.us/where-to-buy/
 
#9
Add to this, the point that you need to be permitted to ship paint back to that store from ups or Fed ex. I got something shipped wrong from sherwin williams once when they actually shipped the wrong paint. I had them send me a label and fed ex still returned it to me. The only way I was able to get it back to them was by driving it there. So its probably the only way to get it back there so I guess you could take that panel if you want to waste a half day.
 
#10
They called me back and they are sending me new paint in Motobase. I gave them alternative paint codes...We shall see...

Yes I think that might be best option to get a small mixing system.
 
#11
Got new paint in mail today. They sent me new batches of Motobase LV.

I did a test and they are dead on perfect, or close enough for me to be more then happy with it...

They sent it to me free but I noticed it had prices on the label $61.25 for Ford J7 and $61.33 for Ford UX....

Really good pricing, alot of quotes I got for motobase online were over $100+
 
#12
The thing I was hoping was maybe one of the pro's would explain those blending additives that are sold and if adding that might have done something to make the first paint match better.
 

elwood

Registered Users
#13
Sometimes the toners aren't stirred Everytime they are used leaving a stronger color on the bottom of can. It is still the same color but more intense. When it is poured from the can it can throw off the color. That's what I was told by our jobber. He is retired now but had mixed paint for 40 years and had seen it all , so to speak. Alot of colors have variances and need vin to get correct mix. I'm sure someone else here might have a better explanation. It is after all mixed by weight.
 

Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
#14
Elwood is right on, but I will say if you have a Jobber that isn't regularly mixing their toner, I'd be looking for a new Jobber. Should be as automatic to those guys as turning on the lights in the building. 2X a day every day of the week. Missing one mix won't change anything to the degree that you mentioned Elwood. That's just one of the stories Jobbers tell to satisfy people when they(the jobber) screws up.
As for variances, they are just a fact of life. As paint documentation has gotten better over the last 20 years or so the amount of variances has increased. All of the Majors have computerized databases that will automatically pick the proper variant if you provide the VIN of what you are working on. Problems arise when you don't have the VIN, and are getting the Jobber to mix the paint and you do not reference the variant deck of the paint manufacturer. If someone takes the time to reference the variant deck then 90% of the problems with paint match would be solved right there.

As for anotheridiot's question, Only real blending additive is what can be generically refered to as "blender". It's just clear binder and added to a color dilutes the color which in turn allows it to more easily blend with the existing color. Blend meaning visually not chemically. WIth enough practice you can take two almost entirely different colors and blend them to where you can't pinpoint where one color ends and the other begins. That in a nutshell is what blending is about.
Only way to alter the color is to alter the formula. Sometimes you can, many times you can't. So then you have to go back to referencing the Manufacturers variant deck to verify that you have what we call a "blendable match".
 

elwood

Registered Users
#15
Well, what happened was the afternoon help wasn't turning the mixing bank on when they were mixing paint. It caused a bunch of paint to be mismatched. When stuff started being mismatched they knew something wasn't right. The main guy with over 40 years never had any mismatches. They ended up throwing away a bunch of toners and starting over with all new stuff. When he retired they lost probably 70 percent of their paint business. There were people who had been getting their paint from him since the 70s and 80s.
 
#16
Jobbers screw up mixes all the time. I recently had one mix me a gallon and towards the end of the job I knew I was going to be short, so I ordered another quart. Not even close. I called and talked to the manager, which I have known for over 30 years, and told him someone screwed up the mix and I hope it wasn't the gallon. He mixed me another quart and it matched the original mix perfectly. The problem is if someone over pours a toner,, they aren't going to throw it away. They just seal it up and sell it. I'm sure it happens all the time, but it is really inexcusable. Mixing paint is probably the easiest thing I do on a job. My toners get mixed a lot, because I use the mixing bank as a timer to keep myself from rushing a job:)
 
#19
Jobbers screw up mixes all the time. I recently had one mix me a gallon and towards the end of the job I knew I was going to be short, so I ordered another quart. Not even close. I called and talked to the manager, which I have known for over 30 years, and told him someone screwed up the mix and I hope it wasn't the gallon. He mixed me another quart and it matched the original mix perfectly. The problem is if someone over pours a toner,, they aren't going to throw it away. They just seal it up and sell it. I'm sure it happens all the time, but it is really inexcusable. Mixing paint is probably the easiest thing I do on a job. My toners get mixed a lot, because I use the mixing bank as a timer to keep myself from rushing a job:)
In the body shop they usually leave you alone while you are in the mixing room. A lot of jobber stores only have a couple guys working. so in the middle of your mix the counterman answers 3 phone calls and looks up parts. Then rings up the guy standing at the counter with a gallon of antifreeze. Then tries to remember if he poured the 3 grams of red into your paint or not.
 
#20
In my shop, I'm the painter, body man, estimator, manager, parts and material orderer, part time secretary, part time porter, etc.,etc. When I'm mixing paint, I'm mixing paint. Everything else can wait the 3-4 minutes it takes to finish, customers included. I can't feel sorry for the overworked, underpaid, jobber counterman working in a dust free, controlled environment, when they screw up a mix. No excuse. I don't multitask well, on purpose.:)
 
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