Questions. Epoxy, 2k, epoxy, base/clear or epoxy, 2k, base clear?

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danford1

I have a few questions but first help settle this debate I'm having. Car is 66 Ford, factory white paint on roof in amazingly good shape. Da sanded with 80 grit. Smooth, no shiny spots, no dents. What is better and why, In This Case?
Epoxy, 2k, epoxy, base-clear. Or epoxy,2k, base-clear or just 2k then base clear with no epoxy?
There won't be any fillers applied. The sanded original paint is ready for the next step.

More questions. When and Why is sealer needed? I've painted a few cars in the last 14 years. I used epoxy and DuPont URO primer or Shop Line 202 primer followed by paint, no sealers ever. Was I lucky the last 14 years? Do I need sealer only if using SPI 2k?

What shrinks less over time, 2K or Turbo or High Build?
I have seen cars that looked great when painted then 6 months later show sanding scatches. I was told that is the primers shrinking.

Thanks Danford1
 
If you pride yourself in doing the best job you can do then use Epoxy sealer. Basecoat adhesion is better and I've noticed less chips in the epoxy jobs than when I don't seal with it.

Sanding scratches are usually an abuse of a product or poor technique more than the product itself. I normally do all epoxy but the last couple jobs I used turbo 2k in there and neither jobs show sandscratches later.

If your trying to make it laser straight without filler then I go Epoxy/2k/epoxy sealer and you have a good base. Your going to be filling factory imperfections in the steel so some fill is required. The 2k should do that. I use turbo because it's fully cured in 3 hours and Barry is proud of it. That is all I need to know.
 
Thank you.
You mentioned epoxy sealer. Is that something different than 2K sealer? I didn't see epoxy sealer listed in the price sheet.
Danford1
 
To clarify what coronet just posted, add 1 part reducer to the epoxy mix so it will lay thinner & smoother as a final coat before actual paint. Read under perfect paint, #885 urethane reducer.
As Brad mentioned, sandin​g scratches are more from not doing something right, mainly rushing a job with poor technique. I've used other products for heavy fillers , such as evercoat g-2 for their properties, but the quick full dry time of the turbo 2k should give pretty much the same results without the overly loud smell.

As a new guy to this site, I've done a lot of reading up on here, trying to upgrade my previous product knowledge. Lots of my questions were answered on the product list info alone.

Epoxy is not the same type of product as 2k (2 part) Urethanes. Many differences on what even really good painters here do. One person here I know from another site that has posted great looking work step by step uses 2k as the last primer before paint, as I have. That being said, I have quite a collection of paint chips on my personal show vehicle from 18 years since first new parts painted. Soooo, I'll be doing epoxy thinned down for a sealer coat next time. The biggest differences between good & great may not be so apparent till years later.

Also if Barry says something somewhere, HIGHLY consider it.
 
Thank you. Looks like I'll be ordering some turbo primer and more epoxy.
First I need to find some quarter panel patches for a 66 Fairlane. Not easy to find as all of them rusted in the same areas.

Danford1
 
Actually both. Bare metal where I sanded through the old paint where repairs are needed and in other areas over the sanded paint. Everything will get a couple coats of epoxy before any primer is put down.

That leads me to another question. Like on the inside of the deck lid, and door jams etc. after the factory paint is sanded, can't I just shoot the base and clear on? It is white paint which would make a great base for the color. Do I really need to spray epoxy, primer, epoxy, base and clear under the decklid? Danford1
 
Order white epoxy and call it a day if white is a good base color. I would Epoxy everything even if it is not needed, it just makes for a very strong barrier to resist any problems now and in the future.
 
danford1;n77813 said:
Actually both. Bare metal where I sanded through the old paint where repairs are needed and in other areas over the sanded paint. Everything will get a couple coats of epoxy before any primer is put down.

That leads me to another question. Like on the inside of the deck lid, and door jams etc. after the factory paint is sanded, can't I just shoot the base and clear on? It is white paint which would make a great base for the color. Do I really need to spray epoxy, primer, epoxy, base and clear under the decklid? Danford1
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I don't think it is a good idea to primer old paint that is sanded with rough grits. You want the paint to be in 220 or finer before priming.

If the jambs have never been resprayed before, you can try scuffing them and painting them directly, but the result won't be as certain as it would be if you started from metal.
 
Thank you for the responses. Let me clarify a couple things. The car is presently white but will undergo a color change to a coppery orange color. I already have SPI epoxy in black, Red oxide, and white. When I was talking about the inside the trunk, that is white. I was asking about just sanding that down let's say with 320 or 400 grit paper. Then spraying the base and clearcoat. Now I know to spray the proxy sealer on it before I paint it.
In Barry's perfect panel he talks about sanding everything with 80 grit and then spraying on epoxy. That is a rough surface. Wouldn't 2k primer or epoxy stick better to a rough surface as opposed to a smooth surface? The rough surface gives it more tooth to hold onto. Wont 2k primer or turbo primer be thick enough to fill in the scratches?

Danford1
 
You want to have rough scratches in metal, but not in paint. Metal can use the roughness for adhesion. Priming over rough scratches on old paint increases the chances for visible shrinking to happen down the road, since the old coating will absorb solvent, swell up, and release it slowly over time, which causes it to shrink again. Metal doesn't absorb solvent, so coarse scratches in it are less of an issue for shrinkage, though priming over extremely coarse scratches like grinder marks can cause problems, but for a different reason.

If the old paint is sanded with a finer grit, shrinkage can still occur, but it won't appear to be as visible of a defect, and can usually be fixed by buffing. Shrinkage with coarse grit scratches will absolutely ruin a metallic job for sure, but can also leave enough texture in a solid color that there might not be enough clear to fully buff them out.
 
In Barry's article ,it states it is assumed to be a restoration starting from bare metal. Bare metal sanded with 80 grit will give a much smoother texture than paint with 80 grit.

Paint sanded 80 grit & sprayed with urethane primer is what was referred to as abusive & bad technique​.
That's your difference.
 
Crashtech is right. About 7 years ago a friend bought a car that the sand scratches were so bad that you could tell they had used an airfile to sand with. It looked like a heart monitor machine with the continuous lines all the way across the hood and trunk lid. He got it sanded and buffed and got rid of it.
 
Crashtech, That was an excellent description. Thank you. I understand much better now. I can see now how lucky I was over the last 14 years painting cars. Now I can do things better. For starters, I need to re-sand the fender I shot black epoxy on. It had both bare metal and old paint. I used 80 grit but did most of it by hand because the DA wouldn't fit in all the tight curves. I used the 45 degree cross hatch pattern and it is Clearly visible through the black primer. i tried to take some pictures but the light reflections made it difficult. Here is a pict, you can see my cross hatching.
I don't want to take a chance on these showing up 6 months after I paint the car. 2015-11-11 13.42.26.jpg

Now, I just came up with a question. Since the epoxy can't/won't absorb the solvents to release later, will these scratches still be an issue for turbo primer? If so. What is the Best way for me to fix this?
Thanks again guys, I appreciate the help and wisdom.

Danford12015-11-11 13.42.59.jpg
 
I would block sand with a finer grit just until you cut through and re-epoxy. Then from there you can use the turbo primer but you will have atleast leveled the surface and the deeper scratches are filled with epoxy and a fresh layer of epoxy will give the rest the best protection you can get.
 
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