First Buff Job

JimKueneman

JimKueneman

Mopar Nut
After a success first Paint Job I am starting to learn how to cut and buff..

http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/first-paint-job.4731/

I have worked on 1/2 the trunk lid, rear quarter and a door now. I have tried

1) 1500 with a soft backer pad on a DA. This causes some pig tails due to the DA action.... not sure if it was a piece of dirt or what.
2) Hand sanded with 1000 then 1500 then buffed with Chemical guys foam pads on a DA
3) Hand sanded with 1000 then 1500 then buffed with the classic wool pad/black foam pad on a buffer

This was all with the Presta 2 step polish system recommended by my local auto body supply shop. The quarter panel came out nice. The door is hard to describe. Photos don't show it well. It is nice a slick smooth but it looks.... the best I can describe it is cloudy looking down the side of the car. The quarter and trunk lid clearly have urethane wave that I can live with. It has enough curves that I think it masks what I am seeing. The door is very flat so it is exaggerated. I don't see any scratches in left from the sanding. It maybe the wave is very bad on the door. Now that I understand all this I should not have put 5 coats of UC on all at once. If I carefully block the large flat areas with something more aggressive than 1000 and then move to 1000 and 1500 am I asking for trouble?

Suggestions?
Thanks,
Jim
 
if you only used a first cut pad to achieve gloss again your going to see a clouding finish at some angles. as long as sand scratches have been buffed out you just need to go to a finer pad with some polish. I also use Presta but not the 2 step as its meant for small spot buffing in production work. what I use is ultra cutting crème with their black wool pad, next is ultra polish with green wool pad, then the swirl remover with blue wool pad. I do this for all colors, but on darker colors I come back with a 3m blue foam pad and their perfect-it ultra fine machine polish. There are other systems that also work well but that's what has worked for me, but regardless of system I have never been able to get the clarity I wanted without at least 3 steps of buffing and polishing.
 
When going for a show finish I am much more anal than when I just want it glossy looking.
I use a hard block (oak) and 1000 grit, a spray bottle with filtered water in it (no sand or dirt) and a rubber squeegee with a plastic frame. Work 1 square foot at a time and sand the orange peel out. There will be no shine left on the panel if this is done correctly. Use the spray bottle to rinse repeatedly and the squeegee to dry and check your progress.
This is a slow process but gets the panel flat and removes all the orange peel.
Once done move up to 1500 grit and a soft block and start removing the 1000 grit scratches - you need to get them all out or you will have cloudiness or a hazy look.
From there I go to 2000 grit and get all the 1500 scratches out. This will make buffing much easier.

When using a DA and soft pad you have to be careful the dust doesn't build up on the center of the pad and start causing pig tails. Slowing the DA down helps with this and another trick is to keep a steady supply of water streaming under the pad.

I have the Trizac film discs but to be honest I have never really gotten comfortable using them.

Some of the guys here have different methods but all are basically trying to achieve the same steps.
 
There are a lot of guys who stop a 1500, but I agree with 68 Coronet as I would go to at least 2000 0r even 2500. Lately thought I've been hand sanding to 1500 to 2000 depending on the job and going over that with the green then black buflex disc from eagle. I show type stuff I usually start sanding with 600, but you have to really be aware of how much materials on the panel when you get that aggressive.
 
'68 Coronet R/T said:
When going for a show finish I am much more anal than when I just want it glossy looking.
I use a hard block (oak) and 1000 grit, a spray bottle with filtered water in it (no sand or dirt) and a rubber squeegee with a plastic frame. Work 1 square foot at a time and sand the orange peel out. There will be no shine left on the panel if this is done correctly. Use the spray bottle to rinse repeatedly and the squeegee to dry and check your progress.
This is a slow process but gets the panel flat and removes all the orange peel.
Once done move up to 1500 grit and a soft block and start removing the 1000 grit scratches - you need to get them all out or you will have cloudiness or a hazy look.
From there I go to 2000 grit and get all the 1500 scratches out. This will make buffing much easier.

When using a DA and soft pad you have to be careful the dust doesn't build up on the center of the pad and start causing pig tails. Slowing the DA down helps with this and another trick is to keep a steady supply of water streaming under the pad.

I have the Trizac film discs but to be honest I have never really gotten comfortable using them.

Some of the guys here have different methods but all are basically trying to achieve the same steps.
Click to expand...

Is 1000 enough to to remove the wave? Does the wood block give it the rigidity to not follow the wave and actually cut it?
 
It's my belief that the texture or slight orange peel left from a gun finish conceals urethane wave quite nicely. Once that "small wave" orange peel is removed, any "large wave" urethane wave will stand out, as well as any imperfections in the body work. It's just a hazard of this kind of work in the days of urethane finishes. Lacquer does not have this problem, but then you have to park inside all the time. There's no perfect solution except to refine one's primer blocking, spray application, and color sanding techniques enough to minimize the wave to acceptable levels.
 
Just finished one with 6 coats uv thought I had it but noticed some wave left I took one of the soft blocks with grey/black sides used 1000 on stiffer side and ran from front to back dry and sure enough it showed every high and low so i proceeded to sand long ways only, with water and very little psi and it cut it down flat I didn't think it would work but it did
 
I cut it with 1000 on a hard block, 1500 with a soft block then 1500 on a DA and a soft backer pad with water constantly flowing. Then buffed it with Presta and the black and white wool pad, then with a Chemical Guys white cutting foam pad, lastly the Presta swirl remover with a Chemical Guys black polishing pad.. The results... NOTE I have only done the left fender and door so far.....
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I am being too critical. Was in town today and started really looking at paint jobs in the parking lot. Mine is way better than several new cars I saw :). I am in the groove for cutting and buffing. I get it now. All that is left is the right fender and hood! I had to play around cleaning up some of the old chrome and trim parts to get an idea of how it is going to look...

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Looks great. I am going thru the same thing with wave on my single stage black. I can live with it also but when I get it out in the sun I can't. I tend to lean to noticing it once I did. It kinda gives the illusion of heat coming off of the paint. It's weird. I am gonna go all the way to the sealer if need be and repaint if I need to. The single stage black is totally awesome on my 69 mustang. Never seen anything this black. Good luck on your finish.
 
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