Using Kitty or Tiger Hair to Fill/Bridge Cancered Area ??????

If you are dead set on not replacing the metal and not using lead then I'd probably clean the area up and panel bond that bitch front and back, then smooth it out with a filler. Most panel bonds are epoxy based I believe.
 
Yeah, but those fenders, like so many others in that era, have a brace on the backside that gets in the way of a proper repair. In fact, that's mainly why they rust there in the first place, because crud builds up between the outer panel and the brace and holds moisture.
 
At the risk of getting flamed, I'll ask my questions here before I start a new thread regarding the same issue.

Backstory
I HAVE tried to fix the damage by welding in new metal but due to my bad eyesight, I end up mangling the metal by blowing holes. This happens because I can't see the MIG wire and either miss the metal for the gap or hit the edge and blow it. I have been successful in some areas but I have had to accept that further attempts at butt welding sheet metal will be futile in my case.

Data
- The holes I need to bridge are the result of blowing through when welding-in new metal.
- The holes are all < 1" in any direction measured. (think lacework)
- I have access to both sides of the repair area.
- I plan to epoxy the metal (both sides) before applying any fillers.
- The damage is in non-structural areas and limited to areas that are at most 4" x 4".
- I KNOW this is not "best practice" but I want to eventually finish my car rather than obsess over perfection and proper procedure. If I thought I could do it right, I would.

Questions
- Will the epoxy cement and glass strands method suggested above adhere properly to SPI epoxy within the 7 day window and epoxying over it once done?
- Am I better off using glass filler and epoxying over it once done?
- Are Carbofill or VPA with glass strands added a viable/better option due to their more flexible nature?
- How should prep the epoxy-covered surface to promote adhesion? (this is my main concern, will any of these options stick to SPI epoxy?)
- Which epoxy cement or glass filler should I use for best results?
- Are there any other options not mentioned in this thread?
- I can post "embarrassing" pictures if it will help me get a quality answer.

If anyone reading this lives in or near South Jacksonville FL and is willing to help me in getting the metal repaired correctly, please PM me.

-----
Emil
 
Probably a little late but I also struggle to see when I’m welding. First thing, is your helmet one with adjustable darkness? If not, you should invest in a good one. Second, I use a high intensity light to shine on the weld area. The one I like best is my Astro Sunlight because it has a strong magnetic base and adjustable angle. Well worth every penny. Also comes in handy in the paint booth :).


I’ll leave it to the experts to advise you on your repair.

Don
 
At the risk of getting flamed, I'll ask my questions here before I start a new thread regarding the same issue.

Backstory
I HAVE tried to fix the damage by welding in new metal but due to my bad eyesight, I end up mangling the metal by blowing holes. This happens because I can't see the MIG wire and either miss the metal for the gap or hit the edge and blow it. I have been successful in some areas but I have had to accept that further attempts at butt welding sheet metal will be futile in my case.

Data
- The holes I need to bridge are the result of blowing through when welding-in new metal.
- The holes are all < 1" in any direction measured. (think lacework)
- I have access to both sides of the repair area.
- I plan to epoxy the metal (both sides) before applying any fillers.
- The damage is in non-structural areas and limited to areas that are at most 4" x 4".
- I KNOW this is not "best practice" but I want to eventually finish my car rather than obsess over perfection and proper procedure. If I thought I could do it right, I would.

Questions
- Will the epoxy cement and glass strands method suggested above adhere properly to SPI epoxy within the 7 day window and epoxying over it once done?
- Am I better off using glass filler and epoxying over it once done?
- Are Carbofill or VPA with glass strands added a viable/better option due to their more flexible nature?
- How should prep the epoxy-covered surface to promote adhesion? (this is my main concern, will any of these options stick to SPI epoxy?)
- Which epoxy cement or glass filler should I use for best results?
- Are there any other options not mentioned in this thread?
- I can post "embarrassing" pictures if it will help me get a quality answer.

If anyone reading this lives in or near South Jacksonville FL and is willing to help me in getting the metal repaired correctly, please PM me.

-----
Emil
I may get flamed as well, that's OK, we all have our opinions and methods.

In the situation you describe, with the limitations and goals stated, I would do the following;

Grind both sides to bare metal, and ensure it is flat. Cut a patch piece of metal 1/4" larger than the hole, then use 3M panel bond to bond it to the backside. Need a way to apply and keep pressure on it as it cures, ~ 48 hours.

Use regular bondo to fill in and smooth the visible surface.

You may see "printing" in the final finish when it is sitting out in the direct sunlight down the road. But you seemed to be looking for a good enough solution.

This will work and be as strong as a weld, as long as it is not a structural component of the car.
 
One of these magnetic copper backers will also help keep you from blowing through. They also have a longer version.


Don
 
There is something to be said about crappy repairs and keeping a car on the road..I would think cheap repairs are some of what keeps classics available today. I have one of my mustangs that I know for a fact would have been crushed by now if not for caulk and paint to make it what it ain't. I detest guys screaming about having to fix repairs that were done 20- 30 years ago..if not for the patching, the cars wouldn't be here now..with no internet back then, folks did what had to be done...that said, I would in no way do a repair like that except on the lowest form of used car lot clunkers.
 
Well, at face value here and concerning the original question I'll say that I have never seen any value in kitty hair types of polyester filler. And with a spot like that regular bondo of good quality will affect just as good a repair. But if I had to do this I'd use P17.
 
Well, at face value here and concerning the original question I'll say that I have never seen any value in kitty hair types of polyester filler. And with a spot like that regular bondo of good quality will affect just as good a repair. But if I had to do this I'd use P17.
The product description for P17 indicates it will adhere to epoxy.
- In this case, does epoxy refer to epoxy primer?
- If so, would I need to sand the epoxy within the 7 day window, and with what grit?
- Would adding glass strands or cloth into the repair mix add any value or longevity to the repair? i. e. Use P17 to bond/set a piece of glass mat on the backside then finishing the front with high quality filler or P17.
- Is P17 wayerproof?


I may get flamed as well, that's OK, we all have our opinions and methods.

In the situation you describe, with the limitations and goals stated, I would do the following;

Grind both sides to bare metal, and ensure it is flat. Cut a patch piece of metal 1/4" larger than the hole, then use 3M panel bond to bond it to the backside. Need a way to apply and keep pressure on it as it cures, ~ 48 hours.

Use regular bondo to fill in and smooth the visible surface.

You may see "printing" in the final finish when it is sitting out in the direct sunlight down the road. But you seemed to be looking for a good enough solution.

This will work and be as strong as a weld, as long as it is not a structural component of the car.
Thanks for the idea. The problem I need to overcome is finding a way to clamp the metal while the adhesive cures. The areas are hard to reach or access with clamps.


Thanks to everyone for the visibility and copper backing suggestions. I have tried them all as well as a few that were not mentioned. In an effort to not turn this into a medical journal I'll put it this way, what the average person sees in 4K resolution I see in "9-pin dot matrix printer with a worn-out ribbon" resolution. The detail just isn't there.

-----
Emil
 
Thanks for the idea. The problem I need to overcome is finding a way to clamp the metal while the adhesive cures. The areas are hard to reach or access with clamps.
I used this method in a similar situation. I have a stud welder for dent pulling. I welded a stud on the patch and then used Vice grips on the stud to apply pull while the material cured.
 
i use a magna-lense in my helmet . you can match your reading/work glasses . i also have an led flashlight on the end of my mig gun . i buy the ones for a buck at dollar store . when they go dead just replace them . there is no filler that is going to last for the most part it's rolling dice . keep this pic on your phone so you can see the results of rolling the dice and ask yourself if it's worth it .

oh and the original poster is the one who wants everybody else to work dirt cheap so he can brag and make money off the build .
 

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Since welding is out of the question I’m going to go with the panel bond and a small piece of backer metal as suggested by Dean. No need to clamp it on a non structural patch. The adhesive itself and a little masking tape will hold it in place. A heat lamp will speed the cure.

Don
 
Since welding is out of the question I’m going to go with the panel bond and a small piece of backer metal as suggested by Dean. No need to clamp it on a non structural patch. The adhesive itself and a little masking tape will hold it in place. A heat lamp will speed the cure.

Don
Excellent. I will go the metal and panel bond route. I feel better about this option than the filler and glass option.
- What panel bond is the recommended product for this application?


@shine:
Point taken.
I have tried as you suggest with the light. My problem isn't focused, (I don't need glasses up close) I just can't see the wire when the helmet is down. I tried not using the helmet and turning my head but that is a bad decision for many reasons.

Thanks again everyone,
Emil
 
Excellent. I will go the metal and panel bond route. I feel better about this option than the filler and glass option.
- What panel bond is the recommended product for this application?
3M Panel Bonding Adhesive, 08115.
This is a 2-part, 1:1 mix, product that comes in a dual tube dispenser.
It is meant to be used with a special dual cartridge application gun and a mixing nozzle that comes with the product.
The 3M gun is $80-90. There are other brands of guns for less that have mixed reviews.

I bought the material at my local jobber and they had a gun to loan, which was really nice. Might check on that.

The gun is required if you are laying a bead for like a door skin or something.

For your application, if your jobber doesn't have a loaner, I would just mix it manually.

Just leave the mixing nozzle off (you'll never be able to push the material through it without the gun)
Stick something like a ratchet handle down into each tube and push out equal amounts of each part onto a mixing surface then stir them together like you would epoxy glue.

Use something like an acid brush to apply the mixed material. This stuff doesn't kick like epoxy glue, you have lots of working time before it starts to set up.

Good luck!
 
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