Spraying Universal Clear first time overall

[87syncro]

So I spray Ppg at my shop daily and I generally like their products until it comes time to buffing. I'm in Maryland so all our products were mandatoryly switched to low voc and water borne years ago. One issue I have hated since the switch is the buffing. The clears are hard as rock even a couple days out of the booth. We try as hard as we can to get clean jobs right out of the booth for all our production work due to this buffing headache. Of course dirt is a reality and we can't always get a nib free panel. Ppg has two clears which are their top of the line in my area. Ec530 and the ec550. The 530 is a multipanel clear and the 550 is for larger jobs and overalls. I have a gallon of 550 ready to go on my current restoration which is a 87 Volkswagen vanagon syncro. Not the smallest car to paint. The 530/550 is a nice clear out of the gun and really looks like a factory audi clear to me. My worry however is that I will have things that need to be buffed on such a large job on a car I want darn right and I may not be able to get it buffed back up after color sanding an area or a panel. The last job I did was a 84 bmw 633csi using the 530 and it sat for a week before being buffed. I spent hours trying to bring back the shine and I gave up and recleared the panels.

With all of that being said I am hear to ask other professionals their opinion. I purchased some spi universal clear today with the slow activator. I am thinking in theory my life will be alot easier if I use the spi over the Ppg 550 when it comes time to buffnon such a large vehicle. Sounds like I can buff a couple weeks after being sprayed, sounds like some wait months. I have been using the spi epoxy and love it and Barry's service is impeccable. I now want to try the clear but I'm nervous as what I spray everyday is Ppg and what I know. I guess my first question is if the spi clear naturally being softer actually makes it not as durable of a clear as the harder 550 I have? Ppg only wants two coats in a sitting, where as with the spi it sounds like I can do 4 coats in between sanding.

My plan is to do my final prep and epoxy seal the car this Friday night. Then I will leave it in the booth all night at 75 degrees. Then I will return the following morning to do my base let it sit for a couple hours then start shooting my clear around noon with 30 minutes between coats. Depending on how great the car looks after the first 4 rounds and how much urethane wave I have will determine if I am going to reclear the car for a flowcoat. Truthfully I like the factory audi/vw peel look on these vw campers and I am going to use the vehicle and camp in it so it doesn't have to be a sheet of glass eventhough I have blocked and blocked for weeks to get it straight as an arrow up until this point. There's just something about that slight audi factory finish peel I love. The 550 does offer that but I worry about the dangers of buffing. I did spray a fender with 550 today and I am going to see how well it buffs tommorow. Let me know your guys opinions and thoughts. I will have a gallon of both clears ready to be used on Saturday. Help me choose and give me your feedback. Thanks in advance. Oh I am using an iwata supernova with 1.3 tip.

 

[Jorge M.]

So I spray Ppg at my shop daily and I generally like their products until it comes time to buffing. I'm in Maryland so all our products were mandatoryly switched to low voc and water borne years ago. One issue I have hated since the switch is the buffing. The clears are hard as rock even a couple days out of the booth. We try as hard as we can to get clean jobs right out of the booth for all our production work due to this buffing headache. Of course dirt is a reality and we can't always get a nib free panel. Ppg has two clears which are their top of the line in my area. Ec530 and the ec550. The 530 is a multipanel clear and the 550 is for larger jobs and overalls. I have a gallon of 550 ready to go on my current restoration which is a 87 Volkswagen vanagon syncro. Not the smallest car to paint. The 530/550 is a nice clear out of the gun and really looks like a factory audi clear to me. My worry however is that I will have things that need to be buffed on such a large job on a car I want darn right and I may not be able to get it buffed back up after color sanding an area or a panel. The last job I did was a 84 bmw 633csi using the 530 and it sat for a week before being buffed. I spent hours trying to bring back the shine and I gave up and recleared the panels.

With all of that being said I am hear to ask other professionals their opinion. I purchased some spi universal clear today with the slow activator. I am thinking in theory my life will be alot easier if I use the spi over the Ppg 550 when it comes time to buffnon such a large vehicle. Sounds like I can buff a couple weeks after being sprayed, sounds like some wait months. I have been using the spi epoxy and love it and Barry's service is impeccable. I now want to try the clear but I'm nervous as what I spray everyday is Ppg and what I know. I guess my first question is if the spi clear naturally being softer actually makes it not as durable of a clear as the harder 550 I have? Ppg only wants two coats in a sitting, where as with the spi it sounds like I can do 4 coats in between sanding.

My plan is to do my final prep and epoxy seal the car this Friday night. Then I will leave it in the booth all night at 75 degrees. Then I will return the following morning to do my base let it sit for a couple hours then start shooting my clear around noon with 30 minutes between coats. Depending on how great the car looks after the first 4 rounds and how much urethane wave I have will determine if I am going to reclear the car for a flowcoat. Truthfully I like the factory audi/vw peel look on these vw campers and I am going to use the vehicle and camp in it so it doesn't have to be a sheet of glass eventhough I have blocked and blocked for weeks to get it straight as an arrow up until this point. There's just something about that slight audi factory finish peel I love. The 550 does offer that but I worry about the dangers of buffing. I did spray a fender with 550 today and I am going to see how well it buffs tommorow. Let me know your guys opinions and thoughts. I will have a gallon of both clears ready to be used on Saturday. Help me choose and give me your feedback. Thanks in advance. Oh I am using an iwata supernova with 1.3 tip.

I recently buffed a complete 65 Corvette shot with Envirobase and the EC530 clear, the clear was around the 36hr mark when we started wet sanding and buffing the same day. I was actually surprised that it wasn't such a great deal to buff. But still it was more work than if they had used the Universal clear.

The Audi/VW factory finish that you like won't be hard to replicate with the Universal and you will more than likely enjoy the time savings when it comes to buffing. As far as durability with the SPI clear curing to a slightly softer finish and greater flexibility, that will make it less susceptible to rock chips and will actually increase the life of the paint job.

I hope you decide to go for the Universal and that you share your experience with it.

 

[bmenard]

I have buffed universal 2 years later, just like it was a week old. No reason to use anything else imo.

 

[87syncro]

I recently buffed a complete 65 Corvette shot with Envirobase and the EC530 clear, the clear was around the 36hr mark when we started wet sanding and buffing the same day. I was actually surprised that it wasn't such a great deal to buff. But still it was more work than if they had used the Universal clear.

The Audi/VW factory finish that you like won't be hard to replicate with the Universal and you will more than likely enjoy the time savings when it comes to buffing. As far as durability with the SPI clear curing to a slightly softer finish and greater flexibility, that will make it less susceptible to rock chips and will actually increase the life of the paint job.

I hope you decide to go for the Universal and that you share your experience with it.

Jorge what system/method did you use for buffing the 530? I have never had it buff easy for me but I have never had the convenience of buffing it the next day always seems to get pushed back to a few days later. I am leaning toward the spi universal and saving the 550 for a porsche 914 restoration next on the chopping block. Unless I love the spi and Ill shelve the 550 forever. How does a supernova evo with a 1.3 tip sound??Thanks for you encouragement.

 

[Jorge M.]

Jorge what system/method did you use for buffing the 530? I have never had it buff easy for me but I have never had the convenience of buffing it the next day always seems to get pushed back to a few days later. I am leaning toward the spi universal and saving the 550 for a porsche 914 restoration next on the chopping block. Unless I love the spi and Ill shelve the 550 forever. How does a supernova evo with a 1.3 tip sound??Thanks for you encouragement.

For a complete I use the WS400 EVO with a 1.4 and works very well with the Universal.

The PPG we started with 3M 1000 on the areas with trash, rest of the panels it was 1200/1500/2000 all wet. I used a Meguiars wool pad for the first cut with Menzerna 300 compound, then Meguiars foam pad with Menzerna 400, finished with a Chemical Guys black pad and Menzerna 2500 polish. The color was a tri-stage burgundy from Cadillac, the end result wasn't up to a restoration mirror flat finish, but it was 90% there.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Can't speak for universal as I haven't sprayed any yet but I have sprayed gallons of the Euro 2020 and the Production Clear and they remind me of the old PPG clears like 2001 and the DAU clear (exact name escapes me atm) except better. The Euro 2020 is a really nice clear. Flows extremely nice, what I use almost exclusively at work now. Trust us you will love the SPI products.

 

[El Toro]

Same as Chris I use the Euro clear almost every day . It would be nice to spray a few test panels to get the feel of it first, altho your a pro so you will be fine . One other thing you are using a great clear and dealing with the owner and not a big co who you are just a number. Keep us posted good luck

 

[87syncro]

Ok so I have a 1.3 tip for my supernova evo and thats what I am using daily now. Should I switch up to a 1.4 tip to be safe?? Im a bit worried as I am use to spraying with the 1.3 and dont want to add too many variables if I dont have too. Just getting myself prepared for judgment day. thanks everyone for their help.

 

[Jorge M.]

Ok so I have a 1.3 tip for my supernova evo and thats what I am using daily now. Should I switch up to a 1.4 tip to be safe?? Im a bit worried as I am use to spraying with the 1.3 and dont want to add too many variables if I dont have too. Just getting myself prepared for judgment day. thanks everyone for their help.

You should be fine with the 1.3, I've sprayed the EC530 twice, one complete Altima and another it was a front end.

I still find the Universal easier to shoot than the PPG, I think you'll be comfortable with the EVO 1.3 you have.

And like El Toro suggested, spray at least a bumper or a two panel job with the Universal to get a feeling for it.

 

[87syncro]

T

You should be fine with the 1.3, I've sprayed the EC530 twice, one complete Altima and another it was a front end.

I still find the Universal easier to shoot than the PPG, I think you'll be comfortable with the EVO 1.3 you have.

And like El Toro suggested, spray at least a bumper or a two panel job with the Universal to get a feeling for it.

.

Thanks Gentleman. So are you reducing this clear at all? Or just spraying 1:1 with the harder. I read some seem to reduce last coat . What's acceptable as far as coats with this clear? I want to get a good amount on first round to decide if I'm going to reclear again.

 

[87syncro]

Hoping I will have enough product to do the exterior 3-4 coats. Jambs are complete already and I ordered a gallon of the universal and a gallon of the slow hardner.

 

[El Toro]

Yes would be nice to play with the UV clear on a few panels first as hard to jump into an allover first. Just like you adjust PPG clear after using will pick up some little tricks and as some on here will add reducer or some retarder. Where in Maryland are you?

 

[87syncro]

I'll be spraying a few jobs with it tomorrow. I'm in hunt valley,Md.

 

[87syncro]

Well I shot a quarter on an altima today and things went ok. I did two wet coats followed by a final coat reduced 5%. The third coat I only did really to mess around with and see if it would flow out a little more. I didn't have my fan open all the way but I may need to be full open as it sprays thinner then I expected and the final coat did try to take off on me. Hard to tell in the pics but it was trying to run. I may just stick to not reducing at all and apply more medium wet coats as opposed to a couple heavier coats. I do notice the clear so far is very very clear. Meaning it doesn't have any tightness or fuzziness in the reflections that I see with a lot of my current low voc clears. It does appear very thick on the car even though it sprayed thin, not necessarily a bad thing but just different then what my current thinner bodied clears look like. I'm going to let it sit overnight and Ill buff on it tomorrow to see how that goes. Overall I'm happy with the clarity and product thus far. Just need to control the fluid a bit more so it wont take off on the large sides of the van I am going to paint on Saturday..

 

[Jorge M.]

Wouldn't opening the fan all the way out make it seem to spray even thinner?

The WS400 has such big fan that I've never been happy to run it wide open.

I'm usually around 2.5 turns out on the fan and 3.5 out on the fluid.

Would be interesting to know what settings you run in the end for the complete.

And if Chad S. is around I know he uses the same Iwata and I'm curious about which settings he uses.

 

[87syncro]

Wouldn't opening the fan all the way out make it seem to spray even thinner?

The WS400 has such big fan that I've never been happy to run it wide open.

I'm usually around 2.5 turns out on the fan and 3.5 out on the fluid.

Would be interesting to know what settings you run in the end for the complete.

And if Chad S. is around I know he uses the same Iwata and I'm curious about which settings he uses.

Yes opening the fan would thin the clear as its spreading the material out more. Smaller fan puts more material in a smaller area technically. I also only had a 10-12 minute flash and I'm using the slow activator. I think my third coat was just too much weight for the allowed time to flash. Longer between coats and I don't think things would have tried to slide as much. It didn't actually run I can just see it wanted to. When I paint the car I'll give it the proper 30 minute between coats. Today was just a test run on a production car.

 

[87syncro]

Well I pulled an all nighter on Friday night getting the van prepped up. Took some serious time to get this beast all taped and properly prepped. Pulled the van in around 4:00am and shot a sealer coat of spi epoxy reduced 20%. Let it flash for a 30 minutes and applied a second of coat epoxy only in the areas where I thought it was transparent. Left the van in the booth at 75 deg. and went home around 6:00am. Slept until 11:00 saturday morning and popped out of bed ready to get this van painted. Base went on without any issues. I did spend an hour or so fixing a few 320 sanding scratches. I also lightly did some sanding with 1000 on some hard tape edges around the jambs where i pulled the first tape line where my selaer and base stop and placed foam behind that line to get a nice clear spray over the base in the jamb. Clear sprayed easily. I did my first two coats unreduced and my second two coats I reduced 5%. Overall things went very well. Almost no dirt at all. The universal clear did not want to lay out as much as some of the other clears I use daily but I think its due to this clear being so thick and I certainly have some urethane wave because of the thickness and amount of clear. Also being the first time I sprayed this clear I didnt want to pound it on and risk running it. We were out of the shop by 7:30pm.

I chose to put a fourth coat on so that hopefully I can get this thing flattened and buffed without spraying more clear. This van takes for ever to tape and I have done it like 10 times already. I will do it if its a must but hoping I can get it good enough first round. I am going to use the van, its a camper for gods sake. I do want it to look good though.

I know there are alot of discussions already about urethane wave and alot of different opinions. It seems that 600 is a must if I want to level the clear. Then followed by 1000/1500/3000. I am a bit concerned if I do use 600 I wont be able to do it without reclearing as Ill cut too much off trying to level. Anyone have luck starting at 600 on four coats of spi and buffing up to 3000 without burning through? I dont need it laser staright and I would like to leave a little peel to make it look factory. Ill most likely spray a test panel and practice buffing on it to know what Im getting into for the long haul. Car will spend its life in the garage with at most a couple weeks out in the sun a year at best. So I guess Im too worried about tons of uv protection. Also what are you guys using for you blocks on clear, I like to use good old hardwood for body work, was thinking to use the same blocks but concerned about dipping them in water. Thought some strips of thick acrylic or alluminum stock might work better for water.

Overall I am very happy. This has to be one of the hardest vehicles to get straight since the panels look flat but they actually have a slight curve horizontally and vertically. Also the amount of edges and recesses make it a nightmare to sand through all the stages. Its flat enough. I couldn't take anymore I actually had to call it quits and know that I can never please myself.

I have to say in regards to Spi they just rock. I wish I lived close to Barry so I could buy him a beer and talk cars and products with him all the time. Just a total standup guy. Answered all my texts through the whole process and always answered his phone. I have sprayed all the clears out there and this stuff just works. 100% of the clears I spray day to day have either dye back, tighten up or solvent pop if not sprayed perfectly timed coats or more then two coats. The epoxy was great too.

 

[El Toro]

Love them Vans, looks great from here. The more you work with this clear the better control you will have...... I trend to like the EURO clear a little better for my range of work. Oh I am just up the road from you on 83 at the Pa. line. Again great work!

 

[Barry]

Looks great, no need for 600.
You can use 800 wet or 1000 on first sanding.
If I do four coats non-reduced, I will start with 400 or 600 and the decision is made as to witch grit by what i have the most of but I do spray a lot wetter.
Personally from what i see here a 1000 is all you need, to make this a show job.

Another note here, don't be afraid to try a panel with your 1.3 sometime, may work good for you but trial and error is the best teacher.

 

[87syncro]

Thanks Barry. This actually was sprayed with a 1.3 so it may be part of why it was a little textured. I was worried with the supernova and a 1.4 that I would be holding a super soaker. Really the van turned out really well and the car just looks soaking wet. Nice thick clear.