slight fisheye problem again

S

slows10

Have sprayed roughly 2-3 gallons of the epoxy primer. Dont get me wrong please as I am not complaining, seems like great stuff. Almost concrete like.But the fisheyes are startin to get a bit old. Spraying in a pro booth, Cleanliness is not an issue.No moisture in lines. Sata 3000 hvlp,Sata 3000rp.Have 1.3 tips and 1.4 tips and 1.5 tips.All filters in booth are on a maintenance schedule. Switch to another brand of epoxy and no more fisheyes. Switch back to spi and fisheyes are back. Any suggestions as to what we are doing wrong?Any pressure settings on the gun we should try for the spi epoxy? Spraying in normal temps, nothing crazy for the northeast in may, june or july. Does the universal clear bear any resemblance to the epoxy? Seen a couple out of it to. Thanks for any guidance. And we do like the product. PS it took me a few months to talk these guys into trying and using spi.
 
It happens on the first coat if I get a spot too heavy. It will crawl into what looks like fish eye but I know it's not. As suggested don't hose the first coat. I don't get the crawl on succeeding coats . This primer is one of the best materials I've used over the years, extemely versatile.
 
I've had it do that to me as well. I wondered if temperature had something to do with it, because I never seemed to have problems with it at 70 degrees. Now that it's 100 it seems to show up more. Here's what mine usually looks like:
DSC00016.jpg
 
Thanks for the replys. The highest booth temps we have sprayed in was 90 degress no higher.Metal temp was the same. Also the pic in post 4 does not look like fisheyes, just the way the epoxy lays out sometimes. It is easier to see the fisheyes in the univ clear when it happens. I know i have read in the past that barry said he has made his products a bit easier to spray. I think with the spi stuff that you need everything almost perfect to not have any problems with fisheyes. Hey it is good stuff, so it needs everything done right. We let the spies wax and grease remover dry at least a half hour and the same with spi waterbourne cleaner.
 
I get that look on heavy coats as well but have realized it disappears when I shoot the next one...(I'm using it as my build so getting a little heavy is my goal)
 
Guys I am thankfull for all the responses.But spraying in 95-100 should not cause to many problems. Certainly not any fisheyes in epoxy or univ clear. Besides i am not spraying in those temps anyway. 90-92f MAX.Fisheyes are contamination of some sort. Spraying epoxy or univ clear to heavy is not gonna give fisheyes. I am thinking we are just missing something basic (as i am no pro yet)But the guys I work for and (with) are.The only thing I can think of is a piece of dirt and i mean small piece of dirt contaminated with a silicone of some sort is ending up on the job.Is causing the fisheye. But not real likely.I doubled up and took 2 showers this week and had mama wash my clothes special for this session lol. Like i said switch brands and wala no more fisheyes. Thanks. Time for the boss to chime in??
 
So whats heat got to do with it? I'm sure I read here someone heats their epoxy up to 120 to spray it...

As for the photo it looks like what I get. All I can think of Slow you mentioned, there might be some silicon/teflon involved anywhere in the lines or near by.
 
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i only have that problem on metal when its too cold. you using waterbased w&g remover?
 
Give it some induction time, shoot your first coat wet but thin, make sure your gun is atomizing so the solvent blows out during transfer, don't hose it on thick especially on the first coat, let the first coat tack up well before shooting more. There's no fisheye problems with any SPI products but the epoxy primer is a different animal than what other companies are supplying, once you get accustomed to using it you won't want anything else.
 
Bob Hollinshead;22502 said:
Give it some induction time, shoot your first coat wet but thin, make sure your gun is atomizing so the solvent blows out during transfer, don't hose it on thick especially on the first coat, let the first coat tack up well before shooting more. There's no fisheye problems with any SPI products but the epoxy primer is a different animal than what other companies are supplying, once you get accustomed to using it you won't want anything else.
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Have to agree with you Bob :)

My first time using SPI epoxy and subsequent times I have experianced no fish eye effects except for one spot.
I washed it with some reducer before it dried, then w&g again and sprayed, no mo fish eyes.
What I had thought was clean obviously wasn't.
Using Finex 300 1.8 28psi fluid wide open, proper fan and move fast. Just like Shine told me to do.
 
I've sprayed over a gallon of SPI epoxy on my 67 Mustang...I don't have a fancy set up. I spray in the garage or driveway for primer. I am just using a DeVillbiss Finishline III gun with the 1.5. I don't suit up when I spray epoxy, just a mask, goggles, gloves...clean with wax and grease remover right after I mix the epoxy to induce. Most of the time I tack. I only spray when it's going to be over 65 for a 24 hr period, but lately I've been spraying when it's 90-95F. I just got done spraying at 95F. My compressor just has a single, cheap oil/water filter and regulator combo. I'm not a professional either, just a well educated amateur, DIY. This is just my primer set up. But I can't say that I've ever had a single fish eye with this material in an entire gallon +.
 
sprayed epoxy on soft tail tins yesterday through my little iwata mini, no probs. we will figure it out!
 
Just to pile on, I put a coat of epoxy on my Mustang last night after a 100+ degree day. It was easily still in the mid 90's, I have a terribad compressor, cheap gun, and I am painting in essentially a carport. After taking it down to bare metal I cleaned the car once with solvent based W&G, and twice with waterborne W&G. I mixed my epoxy, drained my compressor, and changed hoses before I cleaned and masked the car. That gave the epoxy over an hour to induce. It went on great with no issues (well other than some splattering which must be too low psi at the gun after doing some reading) anyway if this epoxy was going to fisheye it seems like it would do it to me :)
 
Raymond, those are normal results. Wait till you work with this stuff for awhile-excellence in a can IMO!
 
You know this reminds me. A few months ago I ran into a rash of fisheye problems. ONLY with SPI Epoxy. Wouldn't really happen with sealer...base or clear.

Went on for weeks. Now i've seen some of problems guys have on here with the "swiss cheese" look when applied too heavy or incorrectly...as i've seen that happen also. This wasn't that though...full blown fisheyes. Just in areas. I changed my booth hose...took my air filter apart and changed the moisture filter and cleaned the oil coalescer. Still some fisheyes.

I was determined not to blame the product. Got to the point where I would degrease 2-3 times in the both. Both with solvent and waterborne. That started to eliminate the problem so I knew it was something before it entered the booth. We wash everything with dawn soap before it enters to booth for paint. I know it wasn't that...so I got to looking around. There were 3-4 rags laying in the wash bay...all were wet from being used to wash. Thing is, didn't know which one had dawn on it or which one had regular car wash on it or any other contamination. So had a sit down with my guys and re-arranged the wash bay and making total sure that rags stay separated and get washed/cleaned out thorughly after each job.

Haven't had a single fish-eye since. Simple mistake. Easy fix. Not saying this is the exact case here.....but sometimes it is something really simple you just overlook.

The thing noticeable...as it wouldn't happen with other primers or base/clear. SPI Epoxy is, i think, more sensitive to surface contamination than other primers. I know barry has re-formulated to cut down on some of this...but i still believe it is. That doesn't mean it is bad...just means you need make sure the surface CLEAN. I've seen others complain of this and bad mouth the primer....if it doesn't work for ya fine, but don't assume its just the product. ;)
 
I only use solvent-based W&G remover, now using SPI but before was using Auto Body Master, and the white Scott shop towels. They don't leave lint, and I fold it into fourths and use a new section each time I wipe. I spray it on and then wipe it off. I'll degrease twice before I spray, or until the surface of the paper towel is clean. I've never experienced a fish eye with this, as I stated earlier. I just can't believe a professional shop does experience this with all the better gear and facilities they would have, not to mention experience. I have not found the epoxy to be very sensitive to contamination at all.

But then again, my profession is a scientist and all the work I do in the lab is sterile and aseptic because I can't let a SINGLE bacterial cell get into my work. So there may be some carry over to my prep work that I just don't notice because it's so second nature.
 
do not do the folding a rag in quarters thing. how much does a rag cost. the contaminates soak right through the towel . use one side and throw the damn thing away.
 
shine;22560 said:
do not do the folding a rag in quarters thing. how much does a rag cost. the contaminates soak right through the towel . use one side and throw the damn thing away.
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x2. cost of rags is nothing compared to fighting contaminates in the booth....especially if its 101 in there like it is today.
 
Guys, I will say that this SPI epoxy is so sensitive to cleanliness that I'm thinking twice about using it. I had an inner fender closing panel (rides between tub and inner fender) that needed two coats epoxy on both sides. I cleaned with solvent W&G remover and shot it with epoxy reduced 20%. First side had typical fish eyes to which I am now very accustomed. I sprayed light coat and my spray technique was good and the temps were great. I let it flash a half hour and shot second coat which covered fine. That first coat on bare metal is a bitch. I flipped it over and cleaned with water based W&G remover again (spray and wipe, was very very clean on paper towel). Shot that side, and no problems. It's like I have to work really hard to use this product. If it was something I purchased at my local supplier, I'd switch brands. I keep trying to use it, hoping for a better outcome - primarily because I really appreciate the company, Barry, and this forum. Hoping that when I use it for a sealer, it won't be so tempermental as it is now, as a first coat on metal. Here are a few pics of fish eyes (first coat), as if you haven't seen enough of them. Thoughts?
Pat

021.jpg

020.jpg

017.jpg
 
Like I have said many times, the better the clear, the better the epoxy, the more sensitive it is to proper prep and cleaning.
It is not something I want to lower the quality on, as been this way for years.
It is not for everyone, sometimes a lower end product is the trick.
 
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