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shooting epoxy

#23
Shine, one more ?, after you block the epoxy and know you have it flat and ready for base, do you sand it down one more time with 600 grit, or do you still apply a sealer coat of epoxy before basecoat?
 
#25
Completed my first project with SPI epoxy primer, SPI 2K Regular build primer, and Axalta/Dupont chromabase base coat, and SPI universal clear.
What I did wrong...

sprayed 1st coat of epoxy primer too heavy and got the craters along with heavy orange peel (1.4 tip at 28 psi) 6" fan width, Imade sure to allow 30 minute induction. block sanded and re-applied epoxy primer with a less heavy coat and reduced about 20% for a sealer, was happy with that coat, DRY block sanded with 220 grit (with a vacuum), another mistake I made was not go to a finer grit of sandpaper before applying the base coat, others suggest 400 to 600 grit before shooting the base coat, the 220 grit scratches showed up through two good coats of metallic silver base. To be honest the Axalta Chromabase was less forgiving (idiot proof) than any of the SPI products in my own experience thus far. But I understand the base coat is usually the easiest to spray. Axalta (formerly Dupont Chromabase) claims their metallic sprays well, it sure did for me, as a rookie/intermediate I just couldn't screw up that metallic basecoat, no runs, and no metallic Mottling, metallic flakes all lined up like soldiers for me.

next was the SPI universal clear, I honestly have read instructions many many times from SPI, viewed many you tube videos from experts, read the SPI forum to prepare myself for my first project with SPI products.

Instructions for SPI Universal clear is "Adjust the gun so you can lay the clear slick and you then have two choices: Option #1: Spray the first coat wet then apply a second wet coat within 10-30 minutes for a two coat production type job." to me "clear slick" means a very wet coat...

I interpreted this as a heavier coat and I regret it with runs! next time Im doing a medium coat.
I should of done what I usually do with clears and spray a medium tack coat for first layer to help prevent runs, now I have to sand out runs

one good outcome is the base color matched the rest of the car perfectly.
Knowing that Ford used Dupont/Axalta on my car for OEM paint, so I used the same brand of paint, a great match.
2K regular build primer was a bear to spray with out some sort of orange peel or other issues for me. I used it on another project and even with a 1.8mm tip I just cant get it to spray nicely.

What I do like about the epoxy primer is the gloss to provide a built in guide coat, I dry sand with a vacuum cleaner and works out great, no clogging of sandpaper after 24 hours of drying time.
So even though I feel the SPI epoxy (any epoxy I dealt with) is not easiest to spray it blocks sands very nicely, so nicely I dont think I need to use 2K build primer, I will use epoxy as my build primer as well as much as I can get away with. 20160425_115606.jpg

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Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
#26
Try turning up your pressure some. SPI Epoxy is not hard to spay if you adjust your gun correctly. Orange peel/craters means too much material. or your pressure is too low. Trying to give advice on how to spray clear in words is hard (for me at least.) Easier to show. What is meant in the manual is that the first coat should go on wet (not necessarily heavy). You want it wet enough to flow but not wet enough to run. What type of gun are you using? Have you taken the time to set up your gun as explained in the Tech Manual? My Sata 2000RP is 1 1/2 to 2 turns out (meaning from completely closed. My Sata 5000 RP 1.3 (don't try using a 1.3 tip unless you test first) I go 2 turns out. Look at the fan as you are spraying, if done correctly you should see it start to flow out/fill out as you are spraying. (as it hits the surface) If you don't move quick enough as this is happening you get too much build, If you go to fast it will look dry. If it has orange peel you need to speed up or restrict your material more.

Oh and BTW the Turbo primer sprays great and lays down very nicely.
 
#27
Chris_Hamilton;n82654 said:
Try turning up your pressure some. SPI Epoxy is not hard to spay if you adjust your gun correctly. Orange peel/craters means too much material. or your pressure is too low. Trying to give advice on how to spray clear in words is hard (for me at least.) Easier to show. What is meant in the manual is that the first coat should go on wet (not necessarily heavy). You want it wet enough to flow but not wet enough to run. What type of gun are you using? Have you taken the time to set up your gun as explained in the Tech Manual? My Sata 2000RP is 1 1/2 to 2 turns out (meaning from completely closed. My Sata 5000 RP 1.3 (don't try using a 1.3 tip unless you test first) I go 2 turns out. Look at the fan as you are spraying, if done correctly you should see it start to flow out/fill out as you are spraying. (as it hits the surface) If you don't move quick enough as this is happening you get too much build, If you go to fast it will look dry. If it has orange peel you need to speed up or restrict your material more.

Oh and BTW the Turbo primer sprays great and lays down very nicely.
I'm waiting for "Shine" to chime in and lay the hammer on me...LOL
I sprayed the epoxy primer on another project (very small surface area compared to this project) and I was blown away with it but all of sudden my luck has changed.


thanks for awesome advice, I'm just putting it all on the table so i can sort it out with the experts., I cleared at noon today on my lunch hour from work..LOL thought i had several runs but when i got home after work its not that bad,when it had more time to flow out and dry. overall im happy with the project and SPI, I'm on a learning curve with SPI products that's all, your advice is much appreciated and i will use it next project (65 mustang fastback) my gun is not on the high end of price and selection, but i have researched it and it got a lot of great reviews but I will seriously look at another gun but in mean time will take your advice on gun adjustment, thing is my gun manfacturers says don't go over 28 psi and i did turn it up a little to 30 psi, , but maybe my analog pressure gauge is inaccurate as it doesn't go back to zero on the dial but at sticks at 5 psi, so maybe my gauge reading 5 psi higher than actual pressure. I will look at the turbo primer instead of the 2k reg build primer next project as well.
this hood is for a 07 shelby so I'm sure your trying to tell me to atomize my paint more with a higher pressure and less material or perhaps i need a better gun...got it

on another note..I realized I had made a change on my gun since i switched from epoxy spraying to clear, i had removed a inline decadent filter since i realize it was choking my high flow needed for HVLP.

bottom line i think i learned from your advice is im just spraying every product too heavy, i always thought orange peel is a result of too low of pressure but in my case the opposite.
I did read the sticky about Base/Clear gun recommendations for the DIYers in the $200-$400 range and to be honest it was hard to decifer from all that which gun to consider, everybody had there own favorites, if just one gun i could buy about $300 or under what would it be?
 

Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
#28
Won't hurt a thing to go over the recommended pressure.That number is simply to limit VOC's in regulated areas like SoCal. I'm probably different than most but I set my pressure at the wall. Actually in the booth I use it's hard to tell the exact number due to years of overspray making the regulator hard to read. So I set it by feel. Basecoat for example, I set the pressure at the wall and turn it up until I see the paint atomizing nicely. Then I pay attention to what the paint is doing when it hits the car. The epoxy will tend to crater when your pressure is too low. Turn it up and it makes a lot of difference in how smooth it lays down. I'd be willing to bet much of your issues lies with not having enough air pressure at the gun.

As for guns, read my posts in the thread you referenced for my opinion. I don't really have any idea what's out there for under $300 new. I did get a like new SATA 2000RP (to replace my old worn out 200RP) on Ebay for $300. You got a nice car that is worth some coin, so it's worth using a quality gun, Some of the guys like the Tekna, I would buy a SATA from this Ebayer (I did btw) http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796640723?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT. $469 shipped. Use it and when you are done you could sell it on Ebay for darn near what you paid for it. You would also need a cup or you could use the disposable cups, but my point is top of the line gun that sells for $700+ here in the states is available for $470.
 
#29
Chris_Hamilton;n82667 said:
Won't hurt a thing to go over the recommended pressure.That number is simply to limit VOC's in regulated areas like SoCal. I'm probably different than most but I set my pressure at the wall. Actually in the booth I use it's hard to tell the exact number due to years of overspray making the regulator hard to read. So I set it by feel. Basecoat for example, I set the pressure at the wall and turn it up until I see the paint atomizing nicely. Then I pay attention to what the paint is doing when it hits the car. The epoxy will tend to crater when your pressure is too low. Turn it up and it makes a lot of difference in how smooth it lays down. I'd be willing to bet much of your issues lies with not having enough air pressure at the gun.

As for guns, read my posts in the thread you referenced for my opinion. I don't really have any idea what's out there for under $300 new. I did get a like new SATA 2000RP (to replace my old worn out 200RP) on Ebay for $300. You got a nice car that is worth some coin, so it's worth using a quality gun, Some of the guys like the Tekna, I would buy a SATA from this Ebayer (I did btw) http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796640723?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT. $469 shipped. Use it and when you are done you could sell it on Ebay for darn near what you paid for it. You would also need a cup or you could use the disposable cups, but my point is top of the line gun that sells for $700+ here in the states is available for $470.

great advice, i will check out the gun recommendation for sure and focus on spray pressure, forums are awesome.
 
#30
Chris_Hamilton;n82667 said:
Won't hurt a thing to go over the recommended pressure.That number is simply to limit VOC's in regulated areas like SoCal. I'm probably different than most but I set my pressure at the wall. Actually in the booth I use it's hard to tell the exact number due to years of overspray making the regulator hard to read. So I set it by feel. Basecoat for example, I set the pressure at the wall and turn it up until I see the paint atomizing nicely. Then I pay attention to what the paint is doing when it hits the car. The epoxy will tend to crater when your pressure is too low. Turn it up and it makes a lot of difference in how smooth it lays down. I'd be willing to bet much of your issues lies with not having enough air pressure at the gun.

As for guns, read my posts in the thread you referenced for my opinion. I don't really have any idea what's out there for under $300 new. I did get a like new SATA 2000RP (to replace my old worn out 200RP) on Ebay for $300. You got a nice car that is worth some coin, so it's worth using a quality gun, Some of the guys like the Tekna, I would buy a SATA from this Ebayer (I did btw) http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796640723...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. $469 shipped. Use it and when you are done you could sell it on Ebay for darn near what you paid for it. You would also need a cup or you could use the disposable cups, but my point is top of the line gun that sells for $700+ here in the states is available for $470.

So I cut the orange peel off the UV clear with wet 800 grit Komax interface padded DA, then 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500 grit scuffed up with 1000 and sprayed a flow coat, adding 2 more coats of clear over two prior coats sprayed week ago. i turned up pressure as recommended, dialed less paint delivery (2.5 to 3 turns out?), and reduced 10%, was happier with the finish but still some runs and i am convinced to trash my gun and get a Tekna pro lite or Pro from Summit Racing for only $383 (free shipping). Though I really cant blame the gun, Im sure its a user issue as usual, I need to learn how to atomize better and do more spray testing before shooting actual panel, patience is the biggest denominator for painting IMO.
 
#31
Not trying to hijack the thread, but since the Eastwood gun was mentioned above thought I'd provide my (limited) experience. In my case with the Conours Pro I bumped the pressure to 25, way too much overspray, dropped it to 20 at the gun, set the fluid close to the middle (has about 3 1/2 turns adjustment). Much better control, good surface.
 
#32
[QUOTE="Chris_Hamilton, post: 46632, member: 1663"
Some of the guys like the Tekna, I would buy a SATA from this Ebayer (I did btw) http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796640723?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT. $469 shipped. Use it and when you are done you could sell it on Ebay for darn near what you paid for it. You would also need a cup or you could use the disposable cups, but my point is top of the line gun that sells for $700+ here in the states is available for $470.[/QUOTE]
Chris, The Sata guns from that place came with the plastic cup. Tekna the cup might be optional, (not pos.) someone I know bought the base gun without the cup. The Sata from that place is a winner even though the price went up a little bit.
 
#33
Some of the guys like the Tekna, I would buy a SATA from this Ebayer (I did btw) http://www.ebay.com/itm/251796640723?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT. $469 shipped. Use it and when you are done you could sell it on Ebay for darn near what you paid for it. You would also need a cup or you could use the disposable cups, but my point is top of the line gun that sells for $700+ here in the states is available for $470.
Chris, The Sata guns from that place came with the plastic cup. Tekna the cup might be optional, (not pos.) someone I know bought the base gun without the cup. The Sata from that place is a winner even though the price went up a little bit.
 
#34
I'm likely to buy another gun in the next couple days. With the PSI up I'm getting too much overspray and some orange peel. I don't think I can adjust it out of the gun. Found a good deal on a Tekna copper (no cup but I use the DeKups anyway), but I'll look into the Sata
 
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