Purchased my first metal shaping tool.

MJM

Promoted Users
As soon as I figure how to get it out of my truck, I'm going tò crave a bowl in it on one end. Need to purchase some mallets and sheet metal so I can start learning how to stretch and shape metal.

Three miles from my home a grading contractor was clearing 17 acres of land for a storage unit facility. Paid $40 dollars for this piece of oak.

20221006_105607.jpg
 
You can do a lot with a bowl in a stump. Look up "metal shaping slapper", best if you make it yourself from an old leaf spring.
Some dollies and the slapper will allow you to hand planish after stretching / shrinking in the stump.
These are two I made years ago. The faces need to be polished again.
slappers.jpg
 
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If you are interested in learning, Peter Tommasini makes a 10 DVD set that will put you well on your way to shaping any panel you want.


Peter T.'s Metal Shaping Forum

Kent White has a lot of good videos and tools


Stay away from Wray Schelin "Proshaper" He is not someone you want to learn from.
 
If you are interested in learning, Peter Tommasini makes a 10 DVD set that will put you well on your way to shaping any panel you want.


Peter T.'s Metal Shaping Forum

Kent White has a lot of good videos and tools


Stay away from Wray Schelin "Proshaper" He is not someone you want to learn from.

Thank you for those suggestions. That will be a good way to get started, then take a class for hands on experience.
 
You can do a lot with a bowl in a stump. Look up "metal shaping slapper", best if you make it yourself from an old leaf spring.
Some dollies and the slapper will allow you to hand planish after stretching / shrinking in the stump.
These are two I made years ago. The faces need to be polished again.
View attachment 22677

Nice, real nice!
 
Thank you for those suggestions. That will be a good way to get started, then take a class for hands on experience.
I can't recommend Peter Tommasini enough. In those DVD's he takes you from the basics of shaping to in dvd 7, 8, and 9, he makes a complete quarter panel for a Monaro (Aussie Chevelle) in one piece with nothing more than hand tools and a Wheel.
 
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David Gardiner from Classic Metal Shaping in the UK made a pretty good dvd for beginners who want to learn metal work with basic hand tools. May be worth looking for.
 
Now that the Covid restrictions have eased, I hope to go to Geoff Moss's Shop, MPH Motor Panels, in England for a week in 2023. He is a Master and his tutelage is very affordable. Gottta chose wisely who you learn from. Peter is from Italy started at Scaglietti in the 60's and emigrated to OZ. He studied under a bunch of Aston Martin guys that emigrated to OZ. He is a Master. Geoff Moss is similar. Worked at Aston Martin, now runs a job shop. If you could make it at Aston in the 60's and 70's you could make it anywhere. It was a brutal place to work at.
Just be careful who you choose for a class as there are some teaching that really should be learning.
 
...Stay away from Wray Schelin "Proshaper" He is not someone you want to learn from.
What is your reason for this statement? I am not trying to be combative or doubt the validity of your comment, I simply want to understand the reasoning. I am still learning and don't yet know good from bad.

Thanks for the list above,
Emil
 
What is your reason for this statement? I am not trying to be combative or doubt the validity of your comment, I simply want to understand the reasoning. I am still learning and don't yet know good from bad.

Thanks for the list above,
Emil

I too am curious why not Wray Schelin. I watched a series of videos of him restoring a badly damaged front clip of an Austin Healey, which was coming out awesome.

I also like his way of making a pattern out of fiberglass tape. He appears to be a metal craftsman.
 
I would ask the same question. I don’t have an English wheel, bead roller, or other tools such as the tools he uses, so I couldn’t tell what he’s doing wrong. His shop looks nice for sure. I also don’t make bodies. Guess I’m making parts the hard way.
 
What is your reason for this statement? I am not trying to be combative or doubt the validity of your comment, I simply want to understand the reasoning. I am still learning and don't yet know good from bad.

Thanks for the list above,
Emil
I too am curious why not Wray Schelin. I watched a series of videos of him restoring a badly damaged front clip of an Austin Healey, which was coming out awesome.

I also like his way of making a pattern out of fiberglass tape. He appears to be a metal craftsman.
I would ask the same question. I don’t have an English wheel, bead roller, or other tools such as the tools he uses, so I couldn’t tell what he’s doing wrong. His shop looks nice for sure. I also don’t make bodies. Guess I’m making parts the hard way.

Read this thread and it will become clear.:) Pay attention in particular to what Peter Tommasini writes in that thread. There are several other threads on that forum of the ridiculousness.



I'll say this. If you have no knowledge of shaping and want to learn, it's hard to tell who knows what they are doing and who doesn't. When you start to learn a little it becomes clearer. I'm only warning about him because I want people to be successful at shaping and with him you will not be. Or you will be frustrated and eventually have to unlearn everything he teaches in order to be successful.

Who do you want to learn from? Someone who has made his living shaping panels? Or someone who makes his living teaching? It's a valid question.
 
If you watch W.S.'s videos you never see him finish something. It's always really rough and he never shows the process completely. When he wheels it's completely haphazard like a noob.

Contrast Wrays videos with this collection of videos of Geoff Moss shaping a panel. He knows exactly what the panel needs and what to do.
Starts with an intro then the shaping. Keep watching. If you watch both Wrays videos and these of Geoff Moss, the difference becomes painfully obvious.

As an aside the guy who did the video wrote a book before this video was filmed on wheeling and how to wheel. If you listen as the video progresses it becomes clear his knowledge at the time was very limited. And he wrote a book on wheeling! This is the point I'm trying to make. No shade on Longyard he seems like a good guy, But again some are teaching when they should be learning.

Intro

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4
 
I see what you’re saying, Chris. The English guy seems like a true craftsman, and a good teacher. Looking through Wrays list of videos though, he’s doing some high end cars. He’s doing something right.
There’s more than one way to get to town, and all of them are right.
 
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I'm not harping on methods. Whether one particular way is correct or the other. I am talking about a fundamental lack of understanding of what he is doing. I don't believe any of the finished stuff you see in his videos was done by Wray. I just don't see how he can get from what he shows in his videos. the fundamental mistakes he makes, over and over again to a finished product. Just isn't possible.

Watch this video of him trying to find spot welds and then making a patch panel. There are so many errors here. Dave take some time and read that thread I posted. Just read what Peter T says.

 
I think the issue at hand is Wray is so focused on putting out content for his YouTube income that you see content just to see content. When Jeff Moss or Peter Tommasini post a video it is to show someone correct methods and to help them understand underlying principles to build on.

Here's something I've posted before, and this seems a good spot to drop it again..

I try not to send new guys to Wrays channel, as although he does have some useful info, he also does some things absolutely wrong. Someone green may not pick up on those things and thus also learns the wrong way to do things.


Some examples:

A fabricated motorcycle fender should have the ducktail at the bottom added before the crease was put in down through the center. Any crease or fold acts as a lock, and makes it near impossible to add any additional shape afterwards. Thus the extra shape needed on the sides to add the lower tail could not be put in effectively; the center crease should have been the absolute last thing put in and was not. So he painfully struggles through it and never once mentioned that the order should have been changed.

Welding a patch in the top of a fender right up next to the mounting flange (think hood opening) is going to cause shrinking along/adjacent to that flange. As one would expect, the weld area shrunk and formed a low spot at the top of the fender. He attempted to relieve this by hammering things upward. This introduces tension on the flange such that the extra metal now wants to accordion the flange as the metal is looking for somewhere to go. He notices this when the fender is turned over and hammer and dollies the flange flat again. Then his body sweep shows the low again up top, and this process goes back and forth a few times without any light bulb going off in his head......."Houston, we have a problem..." Yes, the weld shrunk the area and until you PLANISH the weld to add STRETCH you will never correctly fix that low.. He never once mentions this actual cause and effect. I would hope at his level he understands that welds shrink.

I always considered Wray a smart cookie but blunders such as these, gone unmentioned, are just teaching others the wrong way to do things and/or not being able to recognize the cause, effect, and proper corrective action. He does a beautiful job on showing metal finishing, but sadly still has a low area where the weld shrunk the panel when he's done. And full disclosure, my work is not perfect, my metal finishing is not up to his standard, and he'll probably forget more than I'll ever know. But I try to learn from my mistakes and will often use those as teaching moments to show others the how and why of what happens when things don't follow the correct process. I try to insure everyone knows cause-effect of weld shrinking/distortion and proper methods to correct. So if anyone needs training videos I normally point them to David Gardiner or Peter Tommasini. Both these gentlemen were trained properly using traditional metalshaping methods and they do a very good job of explaining the basics so you can understand, up to the most difficult.

I see what you’re saying, Chris. The English guy seems like a true craftsman, and a good teacher. Looking through Wrays list of videos though, he’s doing some high end cars. He’s doing something right.
There’s more than one way to get to town, and all of them are right.

Dave, I would offer an alternative to your last comment. There is more than one way to get to town for sure. Optimally we want to find the one with less pot holes, traffic jams, or U-turns. To learn something incorrectly is the most detrimental to a person that cannot recognize those incorrect methods. To not understand why your first effort does not look the same as Wray's sample magically appeared to be after the commercial break without explanation leaves the novice frustrated and still stuck in a pothole.

So I would suggest that there are many ways to get to town. If we can find the one with less U-turns or wrong directions, we should follow that path... In the early days of the internet and the initial metalshaping presence, many people were sheep. Someone would invent a widget, show it moving some metal, and everyone would oooo and ahhhh over it and have to build their own, even though they still do not understand the principles. Wray was in the midst of this, and it was basically people fumbling along to see what worked and what didn't. Watching his videos now, it's obvious he missed out on some of the basic principles that Peter Tommasini and Jeff Moss learned in their youth as they apprenticed under old world craftsmen. Personally, I've seen enough of Wray's mis-steps in his videos that I wouldn't walk across the street to attend one of his classes if it were free. I'd rather take a more direct path to town.

The thing I like the most about this forum is that you get solid advice on any painting methods by people who have been there, done that, and do it every day. Any mis-steps and someone is quick to guide you to a correct method so you can have some of the most awesome results in paintwork. This is why even guys who refer to themselves as "backyard hacks" can produce outstanding results. Please don't take anything Chris or I have said as a personal attack on Wray. It only follows the same practice on this forum that we'd like to help the members get a better understanding of the most efficient way possible in your journey to town. If that means steering someone toward a better resource for learning something new, to learn the principles properly for a better understanding, then that's all it is, nothing more. If a person can't recognize the fatal errors Wray is making or not explaining in his videos, I think he's the wrong path for them.
 
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I think the issue at hand is Wray is so focused on putting out content for his YouTube income that you see content just to see content. When Jeff Moss or Peter Tommasini post a video it is to show someone correct methods and to help them understand underlying principles to build on.

Here's something I've posted before, and this seems a good spot to drop it again..





Dave, I would offer an alternative to your last comment. There is more than one way to get to town for sure. Optimally we want to find the one with less pot holes, traffic jams, or U-turns. To learn something incorrectly is the most detrimental to a person that cannot recognize those incorrect methods. To not understand why your first effort does not look the same as Wray's sample magically appeared to be after the commercial break without explanation leaves the novice frustrated and still stuck in a pothole.

So I would suggest that there are many ways to get to town. If we can find the one with less U-turns or wrong directions, we should follow that path... In the early days of the internet and the initial metalshaping presence, many people were sheep. Someone would invent a widget, show it moving some metal, and everyone would oooo and ahhhh over it and have to build their own, even though they still do not understand the principles. Wray was in the midst of this, and it was basically people fumbling along to see what worked and what didn't. Watching his videos now, it's obvious he missed out on some of the basic principles that Peter Tommasini and Jeff Moss learned in their youth as they apprenticed under old world craftsmen. Personally, I've seen enough of Wray's mis-steps in his videos that I wouldn't walk across the street to attend one of his classes if it were free. I'd rather take a more direct path to town.

The thing I like the most about this forum is that you get solid advice on any painting methods by people who have been there, done that, and do it every day. Any mis-steps and someone is quick to guide you to a correct method so you can have some of the most awesome results in paintwork. This is why even guys who refer to themselves as "backyard hacks" can produce outstanding results. Please don't take anything Chris or I have said as a personal attack on Wray. It only follows the same practice on this forum that we'd like to help the members get a better understanding of the most efficient way possible in your journey to town. If that means steering someone toward a better resource for learning something new, to learn the principles properly for a better understanding, then that's all it is, nothing more. If a person can't recognize the fatal errors Wray is making or not explaining in his videos, I think he's the wrong path for them.metallic.

That was a very well thought out, and astute reply. I'll take your and Chris's advice. I was going to take Wrays class but, after reading this, I won't, and I won't be traveling to Europe to take classes there. I'll need to find someone within the United States.

I was planning to buy a cheap English wheel from Harbor Freight for $300 dollars. For now panel beating with a mallet on a tree stump and English wheel will be my starting point unless I'm directed otherwise
 
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