old fart wisdom

shine

shine

Member
ok , this thread is some old fart wisdom . likely said before but needs to be repeated for the FNG's .

lot of talk about poly , high build and multiple coats of clear . what is not mentioned is all that stuff has to be removed in certain areas .
example - if you build all that stuff up and dont block it off good luck getting the door locks back on . they are designed to go on a door with a piss water thin oem finish . your also going to loose your shit when you tighten the door handles down.
this is the most common screw up on a paint job. 4 coats of poly then block off one. 3-4 coats of primer 5 coats of color then 6 coats of high solid clear ..... your screwed.
the thinner it is the better . less chipping .

everyone's welcome to add to this but any of that autobody101 crap and i'll ask for the thread to be removed. too much acme shit already showing up on here .
 
shine said:
ok , this thread is some old fart wisdom . likely said before but needs to be repeated for the FNG's .

...this is the most common screw up on a paint job. 4 coats of poly then block off one. 3-4 coats of primer 5 coats of color then 6 coats of high solid clear ..... your screwed.
the thinner it is the better . less chipping .
Click to expand...
As an FNG I appreciate a thread like this.
Let me post these questions in direct relation to the material thickness issue.
- On a body that will need filler due to imperfections that can not be further metal worked, does it make sense to only use filler over epoxy where it is needed and then make up the difference with epoxy or high build? (avoid slick-sand Etc.)
- Using @shine technique of laying darker epoxy on the first bare-metal coat, should all the subsequent layers be sanded back as far as possible to include areas where the darker epoxy is visible but the panel is straight?

-----
Emil
 
take off everything not needed . you dont need poly on bodylines and revels or the edge of panels. nothing wrong with any of the poly's . dont build it up and leave it . consider it filler . if you start with black and block down close each time your doing it right . when you think it's done hit it with 2 coats of epoxy .
 
Fiz, a simple way to put it is thickness of the material is related to how straight (or not) the body is. What shine is saying is that you need to block correctly and not apply material excessively. How straight (or not) the body is will ultimately determine how much material is on there.
 
Thank you both for the guidance. I follow your logic and was already thinking in similar terms.
I know this topic has been beaten to death here but for all my reading I am still not 100% clear on what to do in my situation.
- Regarding spreadable filler and sprayable filler, should I lean more in the direction of one over the other?

This will be my first attempt at any of this but I have been consuming the collective wisdom on this forum and feel confident I can do it, albeit with many rookie mistakes.

The car in question is a 1970 VW Karmann Ghia convertible. It has a few straight body lines as well as several curved ones. The car is all curves with several concave areas.
My thinking is:
- Metalwork as best I can
- Put down a 2-coat layer of black epoxy over bare metal as a failsafe
- Apply filler only in the obvious low spots and minimal surrounding area
- Block the filler until it ls level with the surrounding area
- Seal filler with Grey epoxy (1 coat or 2?)
- (Here is where I get lost)
-- A) Apply several layers of high build primer or Epoxy induced overnight with a 2.3 gun. (which is better at the novice level?)
-- or B) Use Slick-sand or similar product for the blocking stage
- Block down as far as possible and repeat until the car is straight.
- Take care to eliminate filler/HB primer from edges, body lines, and body openings

Sanity check, please.

-----
Emil
 
Thanks for the tips guys. I know I can use all I can get. I hadn't ever thought about the thickness at the locks and the door handles. Experience is priceless.

Is it preferable to block when the panels are on and aligned or off on a stand? None of my panels have any obvious damage but the fenders and hood are new.
 
Evil_fiz: your plan sounds solid. As far as your confusion, either way is fine . I didn’t start using poly till a few years ago maybe . It speeds up the process but filler / high build/ epoxy is fine

66fback : I prefer to block the car while assembled . That way you can block across gaps. When I start disassembly for paint it is usually ready to be sprayed- maybe a final 600 grit is needed
 
Blocking across the gaps is easier said than done. Often it requires a lot of metalwork to be able to do so. Most vehicles when gapped and aligned perfectly will not block across the gaps without some major surgery. Often the edge of the quarter is in a different plane than the edge of the door. etc etc. Not trying to discourage anyone from doing it but it's not easy.
 
66FBACK said:
Thanks for the tips guys. I know I can use all I can get. I hadn't ever thought about the thickness at the locks and the door handles. Experience is priceless.

Is it preferable to block when the panels are on and aligned or off on a stand? None of my panels have any obvious damage but the fenders and hood are new.
Click to expand...
It depends what you are going for. If you are looking for the sides to look like one continuous panel, they will have to be bodyworked and blocked together. As Chris mentioned, this is easier said than done. Many times the panels "drop off", meaning they are higher in the center than the edges. A lot of times, the only way to fix this is with extensive metal work. You do not want to do it with filler. It will leave the edges thick with filler, which IMO, looks terrible. It also makes it very prone to chipping. I mount the new parts and align the existing parts as close as possible before disassembly. Spending time here makes all the difference. Many times the new parts will take a lot of massaging to align properly, and it is much better to do it before any filler or primer work is done. theastronaut has some excellent posts on what he goes through to get all the gaps and panels aligned. It is not for a novice, or most experienced pros either.
 
Last edited:
Evil_Fiz said:
) Apply several layers of high build primer or Epoxy induced overnight with a 2.3 gun. (which is better at the novice level?)
-- or B) Use Slick-sand or similar product for the blocking stage
- Block down as far as possible and repeat until the car is straight.
- Take care to eliminate filler/HB primer from edges, body lines, and body openings
Click to expand...
Deciding what to use is usually decided by how straight the filler work is. Any of the 3 primers can be used. After filler work and spraying 2 coats of epoxy, block it with some 150-180 and see how it looks. If it has some more substantial low spots, I would rather see you use a little more filler than try to fill them up with any primer. A lot of novices get in a hurry to prime before it is ready. If you shoot 2K over your epoxy and then find lows, it is too late to use more regular filler. It should only be used over epoxy. 2K shrinks more than epoxy or poly, especially when applied thick, but there is nothing wrong with any of them when used correctly.
 
Last edited:
texasking said:
...After filler work and spraying 2 coats of epoxy, block it with some 150-180 and see how it looks. If it has some more substantial low spots, I would rather see you use a little more filler than try to fill them up with any primer.
Click to expand...
Thanks for validating the direction I am leaning in. In keeping with shine's advice, I figure it's easier to control buildup if I use filler only where it's needed rather than blanketing the panel with heavy material. I will try to do the bodywork using filler and epoxy only. I have more time than skill so I will use that to my advantage. ;)

-----
Emil
 
ok, on stripping paint with a razor blade. you cant do it without heat ! those paint chips cause grief for weeks . especially if you get them in your eyes . eyewear does no good . use a heat gun and get it off in big strips . i pull 2ft pieces off . once you get the hang of it things go pretty well. beats hell out of grinding and sanding .
 
When laying down base does it matter which direction you spray in? Does it make any difference if the panel is laying flat or hanging, besides ease of spraying?
 
66FBACK said:
By this are you saying to paint the car assembled or not to paint the panels at different times?
Click to expand...
Either one. It’s a personal choice and how confident you are. If I panel paint metallics I line them up in the booth the way they are installed on the car and paint them continuously as if they were on the car. Hope this makes sense.

Hopefully one of the pros will reply. I’m a little out of my lane replying in this thread. :)

Don
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top