New here, about ready to order and I have questions/clarifications

Pacfanweb

Promoted Users
Hello everyone. Been reading here awhile. Loads of great info here.

Little about me: Grew up in a body shop. My dad managed and then owned one. He closed his and I got out of that part of the auto business about the time base/clear was becoming the norm. I do water leaks, wind noise and sunroof repairs now after working in a dealership service dept for 16 years.

I find that I've missed just a wee bit over the last 30 years, been doing a ton of reading to get back up to speed and get my knowledge base back somewhat current.

So: Fixing up my old Square body drag truck. Been sitting a long time, bed got rusty. Had it blasted, did a bunch of metal work to it, it's now about ready to do filler/prime/paint work. Which is why I'm here, I've been reading all over which way to go and I've found the newer way of doing things conflicts with "the way it used to be", lol.

I've decided to just use SPI for all my coatings, to keep everything compatible and make it just easier. Right up to the paint, as this truck is good old Code 99 black, so I assume SPI's single stage black would be roughly the same.

So here's what I've gleaned from reading about the stages of the process, I want to make sure I've got it right. Feel free to correct me if necessary:

I'm at bare metal. It's been hit with Ospho. I see that's sort of frowned upon here. But, I read the "how to neutralize" write up, and tried it on the front wall of the bed and it's no problem, so I feel pretty comfortable with that process, don't think it'll be a problem. I even tasted it to make sure it wasn't sour.

So I'll do the neutralization, DA with 80, and epoxy. That about right?

Then filler over the epoxy "within the window", as I've read. Prime/block as necessary....then reseal with epoxy for the final, and then paint "within the window"?

From what I can gather, all the above needs to happen in fairly short order, right? I guess in order to ensure the chemical bonding.

Now questions about that before I get to the paint part: What about scuffing before filler? Is mechanical bond not a thing anymore? Does it hurt? Does it help at all? I know it would make old-school me feel better, anyway. But if it's a waste of time, maybe I'd skip it. That's probably my biggest mental hurdle to jump, not scuffing before the next layer of whatever.

So if all that's correct, we're now in the final coat of epoxy and ready for paint "within the window".

I am thinking single stage. Simple, looks great. It has activated Centari on it from 1986 that still buffs to a nice gloss. (on the cab, the bed was blasted)

SPI black about the same? Any such thing as putting clear over SS, and if so, any real advantage to doing such a thing? I swear I thought I read something about that here but then never could find it again so maybe I didn't.

My goal here is to put this truck back on the drag strip. I want it to look nice. But it doesn't have to be a show piece. Just pretty nice. That's the endgame. I'm not even fixing all the dents/dings in the bed floor, just going to coat it probably with epoxy and then have it spray lined. It's never going to haul anything besides butt, and not a show piece so don't care what that part of it looks like. Probably end up with a cover on it anyway.

Am I somewhat on track? My first step was going to be putting filler right on the metal until I read about doing epoxy first, and I'm real high on wanting that metal sealed off as much as humanly possible.

My sense of what to order is:
Epoxy/activator
2k Primer/activator
SS Black/activator
Clear? Thinner? I live in NC, so even though we've had an extended spring, it's going to be hot eventually.

Anything else?
Thanks in advance for any guidance.

This is the truck in happier days
 

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Looks like you’ve done your homework on here. I’m just a newb to painting but the Pros on here will be the ones to give you solid answers. They have certainly been a lifesaver to me.
The biggest issue I ran into during my multi-year project was not understanding those “windows“ of epoxy ahead of time, and then having to deal with a lot of what would have been unnecessary recoats had I stayed within the window or worked in smaller pieces… Spraying some 2K primer would have helped too instead of me using only epoxy through the process.
It seems like I remember reading that within the 7 day window, sanding to provide more of a mechanical bond for the filler was not necessary but would not hurt if it made you feel better.
One important thing that you may not have picked up on is that sunlight dramatically affects that curing process. If you spray epoxy and then have it out in the sun for the day then that shortens the window...
Not sure about the bed liner you plan to use but when I spoke to the local Line-X operator he was adamant that he could not spray directly over my Epoxy.
As far as materials, don’t forget your waterborne wax and grease remover and urethane reducer. Lacquer thinner for cleanup.
 
I think most of your questions can be answered by reading “ the perfect paint job” and the technical data sheets of the products.
I read them over and over…..in hopes of it becoming a permanent part of me, like 18436572
The search function can keep you reading for weeks on topics like dry air supply, dedicated hose, the difference between isopropyl and denatured alcohol, the effects of static…..
 
Looks like you’ve done your homework on here. I’m just a newb to painting but the Pros on here will be the ones to give you solid answers. They have certainly been a lifesaver to me.
The biggest issue I ran into during my multi-year project was not understanding those “windows“ of epoxy ahead of time, and then having to deal with a lot of what would have been unnecessary recoats had I stayed within the window or worked in smaller pieces… Spraying some 2K primer would have helped too instead of me using only epoxy through the process.
It seems like I remember reading that within the 7 day window, sanding to provide more of a mechanical bond for the filler was not necessary but would not hurt if it made you feel better.
One important thing that you may not have picked up on is that sunlight dramatically affects that curing process. If you spray epoxy and then have it out in the sun for the day then that shortens the window...
Not sure about the bed liner you plan to use but when I spoke to the local Line-X operator he was adamant that he could not spray directly over my Epoxy.
As far as materials, don’t forget your waterborne wax and grease remover and urethane reducer. Lacquer thinner for cleanup.
Okay, not being able to spray liner over the epoxy is a new one to me. Interesting. They scuff and spray it over factory paint regularly, I thought it was mechanical bond only. I supposed I could just put some junk paint over the epoxy if that's really an issue.
I'm torn over buying a kit and spraying that myself or just carrying the bed to one of my dealerships I do work for and having them spray it. It's awfully heavy to be lugging around, so that makes doing it at home the way I'm leaning at the moment.
 
Okay, not being able to spray liner over the epoxy is a new one to me. Interesting. They scuff and spray it over factory paint regularly, I thought it was mechanical bond only. I supposed I could just put some junk paint over the epoxy if that's really an issue.
I'm torn over buying a kit and spraying that myself or just carrying the bed to one of my dealerships I do work for and having them spray it. It's awfully heavy to be lugging around, so that makes doing it at home the way I'm leaning at the moment.
Check with a local Line-X rep. You may get a different answer. I’m not convinced the owner I was talking to even understood what epoxy was…. However, I’ve read on here how slick cured epoxy was and that you always need a fresh coat within the window before applying any other paints.
 
Okay, not being able to spray liner over the epoxy is a new one to me. Interesting. They scuff and spray it over factory paint regularly, I thought it was mechanical bond only. I supposed I could just put some junk paint over the epoxy if that's really an issue.
I'm torn over buying a kit and spraying that myself or just carrying the bed to one of my dealerships I do work for and having them spray it. It's awfully heavy to be lugging around, so that makes doing it at home the way I'm leaning at the moment.
Raptor is great stuff, easy to spray and they recommend putting it on over epoxy.
 
Raptor is great stuff, easy to spray and they recommend putting it on over epoxy.
The local dealership that I considered having spray for me, their prep consists of using a polisher with one of those plastic or Teflon type wire brush things which I guess are impregnated with some sort of grit to scuff the surface, clean it and shoot it. I assume that's about what you do for Raptor as well?

They use Toff. Doesn't appear you can buy that on a retail basis, but I'm wondering if I can talk them out of a kit so I can use it at home. It looks as good as Line-X, which is the top dog as far as I'm concerned.
 
Hello everyone. Been reading here awhile. Loads of great info here.

Little about me: Grew up in a body shop. My dad managed and then owned one. He closed his and I got out of that part of the auto business about the time base/clear was becoming the norm. I do water leaks, wind noise and sunroof repairs now after working in a dealership service dept for 16 years.

I find that I've missed just a wee bit over the last 30 years, been doing a ton of reading to get back up to speed and get my knowledge base back somewhat current.

So: Fixing up my old Square body drag truck. Been sitting a long time, bed got rusty. Had it blasted, did a bunch of metal work to it, it's now about ready to do filler/prime/paint work. Which is why I'm here, I've been reading all over which way to go and I've found the newer way of doing things conflicts with "the way it used to be", lol.

I've decided to just use SPI for all my coatings, to keep everything compatible and make it just easier. Right up to the paint, as this truck is good old Code 99 black, so I assume SPI's single stage black would be roughly the same.

So here's what I've gleaned from reading about the stages of the process, I want to make sure I've got it right. Feel free to correct me if necessary:

I'm at bare metal. It's been hit with Ospho. I see that's sort of frowned upon here. But, I read the "how to neutralize" write up, and tried it on the front wall of the bed and it's no problem, so I feel pretty comfortable with that process, don't think it'll be a problem. I even tasted it to make sure it wasn't sour.

So I'll do the neutralization, DA with 80, and epoxy. That about right?

Then filler over the epoxy "within the window", as I've read. Prime/block as necessary....then reseal with epoxy for the final, and then paint "within the window"?

From what I can gather, all the above needs to happen in fairly short order, right? I guess in order to ensure the chemical bonding.

Now questions about that before I get to the paint part: What about scuffing before filler? Is mechanical bond not a thing anymore? Does it hurt? Does it help at all? I know it would make old-school me feel better, anyway. But if it's a waste of time, maybe I'd skip it. That's probably my biggest mental hurdle to jump, not scuffing before the next layer of whatever.

So if all that's correct, we're now in the final coat of epoxy and ready for paint "within the window".

I am thinking single stage. Simple, looks great. It has activated Centari on it from 1986 that still buffs to a nice gloss. (on the cab, the bed was blasted)

SPI black about the same? Any such thing as putting clear over SS, and if so, any real advantage to doing such a thing? I swear I thought I read something about that here but then never could find it again so maybe I didn't.

My goal here is to put this truck back on the drag strip. I want it to look nice. But it doesn't have to be a show piece. Just pretty nice. That's the endgame. I'm not even fixing all the dents/dings in the bed floor, just going to coat it probably with epoxy and then have it spray lined. It's never going to haul anything besides butt, and not a show piece so don't care what that part of it looks like. Probably end up with a cover on it anyway.

Am I somewhat on track? My first step was going to be putting filler right on the metal until I read about doing epoxy first, and I'm real high on wanting that metal sealed off as much as humanly possible.

My sense of what to order is:
Epoxy/activator
2k Primer/activator
SS Black/activator
Clear? Thinner? I live in NC, so even though we've had an extended spring, it's going to be hot eventually.

Anything else?
Thanks in advance for any guidance.

This is the truck in happier days
Looks like a solid plan to me.
Almost certain to sand through epoxy to metal when doing filler work. Not a problem, just need to respray any bare metal before moving on to 2K primer.
A lot of folks discuss spraying clear over SS. The conclusion I've come to is that there is absolutely no need for that. Just the opinion of a DIY guy spending too much time reading this forum :)
 
Raptor is great stuff, easy to spray and they recommend putting it on over epoxy.
I’ve always worried about spraying that because it seems like it would be really tough to keep a consistent thickness with it. As thick as it is I wonder/worry that any accidental extra overlap or inconsistent overlap would be very visible…
Did you have any problems or what are your thoughts?
 
Looks like a solid plan to me.
Almost certain to sand through epoxy to metal when doing filler work. Not a problem, just need to respray any bare metal before moving on to 2K primer.
A lot of folks discuss spraying clear over SS. The conclusion I've come to is that there is absolutely no need for that. Just the opinion of a DIY guy spending too much time reading this forum :)
I looked at the technical instructions for single stage and it indeed does say you can use any of the SPI clears over it if you want to. I knew I had read that somewhere.
Just wondered if anybody actually did that, and if it looks any better, or just makes it easier to buff, etc.
 
I looked at the technical instructions for single stage and it indeed does say you can use any of the SPI clears over it if you want to. I knew I had read that somewhere.
Just wondered if anybody actually did that, and if it looks any better, or just makes it easier to buff, etc.
"Can" and "Should" are different.
The reasons I hear people talking about spraying clear over SS are for gloss, shine, depth or buffing.
But I believe you get all of that in SS, so there is no reason for me, the relatively new DIY guy.
 
I’ve always worried about spraying that because it seems like it would be really tough to keep a consistent thickness with it. As thick as it is I wonder/worry that any accidental extra overlap or inconsistent overlap would be very visible…
Did you have any problems or what are your thoughts?
My experience was that Raptor was very easy to spray and I easily got a very nice, even finish.
One caveat is that Raptor is sold by many outlets, many of whom bundle it with very low end guns. Those cheapy guns are terrible.
Get the one that Raptor sells, way better.
Here is the result I got. The discoloration you see is just were I wiped it with a cloth in a few places. The actual finish is great and consistent looking.

Trunk done closed.jpg
 
My experience was that Raptor was very easy to spray and I easily got a very nice, even finish.
One caveat is that Raptor is sold by many outlets, many of whom bundle it with very low end guns. Those cheapy guns are terrible.
Get the one that Raptor sells, way better.
Here is the result I got. The discoloration you see is just were I wiped it with a cloth in a few places. The actual finish is great and consistent looking.

View attachment 25660
Looks great. Great info thank you.
and sorry for hijacking the thread.
 
Okay, so I'm trying to figure out what to order, and obviously I'll have to call in, but wanted to get a rough idea.
Going to go with the black Epoxy. So that and activator. Do I need a gallon? I know not for just the best, but going to do the cab after this. 2 quarts enough?
How about reducer for that?
Then the 2k primer. That and activator. Do I need reducer for that or not? Probably going with the high build version.

Then paint. SS Black. Gallon w/activator. Do I need reducer for it?

I'm still mulling over the clear over the SS option. How quickly after the SS is applied do I need to cut/buff? I know this is urethane, but is there a limited window in which it can be buffed/polished before it becomes rock-hard, or can it be cut/buffed anytime?

My dad was a big Imron fan back in the day. I had a 76 Trans Am that was done in 99U Black Imron like 2 years before I got it, and one Friday night I decided I wanted to sand/buff it. So I had just started water sanding the sail panel with 1500, and he walks up and asks what I'm doing. "Going to water sand and buff it"
He laughs, and says "Boy, before you sand the whole car, do me a favor: Go ahead and buff that spot you're sanding now, and then see if you want to do the rest of the car"
So 30 minutes later I'm just getting the last of the scratches out of a place about as big as your hand, and that's when I realized how tough Imron was.

Therefore, it makes me wonder if all SS urethane is like that?
 
You will need reducer for the final seal coat of epoxy right before you spray the single stage, and you will need reducer for the single stage. I’m not sure about the 2K primer but am pretty sure you don’t use it for that. I used epoxy through the whole process.
Can’t help with the amount estimation. I would be embarrassed to admit how m any gallons I used during my spray, block, fill, and repeat session…. I’ve read on here that 8oz per panel, per coat is how some estimate.
I was told I can wait as long as I want after spraying my single stage, and that is just what I need. I’m limited in when I‘m at our place with my shop, so will have to go a long time between my final two coats and the cut and buff process.
 
That truck will eat material. Probably two gallons each. Have a gallon or two of slow reducer on hand.

SPI single stage is based on production clear and will get harder to buff over time unlike universal. Keep it out of the sun. I don’t reduce SPI single stage per the data sheet. Follow the data sheets.

Don
 
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