Need help, nonstop dieback on clear no matter what I do.

Already ordered! Easy as can be calling in. I'm looking forward to the eclipse, ordered some solar lense/filters for my Celestron telescope. I'll be watching!
 
Well I got to the bottom of the issue I was having. It was simply defective crappy clearcoat. I should have not ignored the recommendations I was given to use the SPI clear.

I did significant testing. I even brought the clearcoat to a neighbor who is the head painter at a very large collision repair facility. We used the clear and let it airdry, and we also did a bake on it as another test. Both resulted in the same dieback. He used a Sata gun, completely different then my turbine so we ruled that out.

I've sprayed Epoxy Primer, waterborne primer, 2K build primer with great success so far using the turbine. Just this clear was giving me problems, and of course it was the first clear I tried since using the turbine so that's what threw me off.

He gave me a small amount of PPG DC2000 to try and said it that didn't work to use the DC4000. The DC2000 worked beautifully.

Sprayed a part and it kept the gloss, was dry VERY quick, under 1 hour just to be safe. I will try the SPI clear next, hopefully the SPI works out good!

Barry, if you read this or someone else who is knowledgeable. I would like to make a fast curing clear. What do I need, the polar accelerator?

Well I got to the bottom of the issue I was having. It was simply defective crappy clearcoat. I should have not ignored the recommendations I was given to use the SPI clear.

I did significant testing. I even brought the clearcoat to a neighbor who is the head painter at a very large collision repair facility. We used the clear and let it airdry, and we also did a bake on it as another test. Both resulted in the same dieback. He used a Sata gun, completely different then my turbine so we ruled that out.

I've sprayed Epoxy Primer, waterborne primer, 2K build primer with great success so far using the turbine. Just this clear was giving me problems, and of course it was the first clear I tried since using the turbine so that's what threw me off.

He gave me a small amount of PPG DC2000 to try and said it that didn't work to use the DC4000. The DC2000 worked beautifully.

Sprayed a part and it kept the gloss, was dry VERY quick, under 1 hour just to be safe. I will try the SPI clear next, hopefully the SPI works out good!

Barry, if you read this or someone else who is knowledgeable. I would like to make a fast curing clear. What do I need, the polar accelerator?

You never really got to the bottom of it other than saying it was crappy. That isn't a fix. I used SPI Universal on a car and I had to do a lot of sanding and buffing. It looked great when I sprayed it but the next day when I went in it looked like an orange. It was slick when I left the booth. Now I didn't go around saying it was crappy clear because a lot of people have had good luck with it. It just wasn't for me. It didn't work in my environment. I'm not sure of your air flow situation but SPI doesn't really need much air flow after your last coat. It is even recommended to turn the fans off within minutes of the overspray clearing. Not everyone can use an accelerated clear. For that matter I used Rubberseal Medallion 2 hr clear and it always performed flawlessly. You said you were sent a slower drying clear and it worked but yet you are still wanting to use something else that is faster? Barry has given you suggestions of things to try and pretty much telling you issues people have with speed clears and you are wanting to turn his product into a speed clear. If you add accelerator to his and it doesn't work are you going to find another forum to bash his product on? Trust me people have issues with Barry's clear too. I've talked to him about it and he has people doing the same thing to him that you are doing to the other company. In one conversation he even told me himself that he has had to tell people that they need to find another clear because his just isn't for them and let them go to another company. That is part of doing business. You can't make everyone happy. Barry even commented that he has one customer that he worked with for 2 months to get things right. Are you willing to stick around that long to see if he can help you if you have issues?
 
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I think you need to lay off the paint fumes, or maybe go back and do some reading...

I have not received the SPI clear yet. It comes tomorrow.

The other company clear I tried is what I am calling "crappy". I even did a "pour" test, meaning I mixed up some clear, poured it on a panel and let it flow around. That even diedback which further proves it was no good.

Had success with PPG DC2000 sample I had. Its just ultra expensive. Now i'm going to try the SPI production clear, i'm confident it will work.
 
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The other company clear I tried is what I am calling "crappy". I even did a "pour" test, meaning I mixed up some clear, poured it on a panel and let it flow around. That even diedback which further proves it was no good.

Not piling on but that isn't really a valid test. Pouring it out like that will almost always dieback regardless of the brand. It is so thick that solvents get trapped and can't all evaporate out before the top of it starts to close/catalyze.

Go with what Barry says. Don't deviate from the plan he gives you and everything should work out fine.
 
Barry,

Received the SPI clear today and it worked beautifully. I am beyond happy. Everything from the custom SPI shipping boxes, well packaged cans inside the shipping box, nice product manual. Everything felt "premium".

I mixed up some clear with the slow hardener, applied two wet coats with a 20 min flash time. Cured perfect, looks EXACTLY how after I sprayed it.

100% difference compared to that other crap I was using.

No issues whatsoever with the turbine system. I sprayed at 9.5 PSI with .8mm tip and it laid out like a sheet of glass.

I am kicking myself for not using your product first, I cannot believe I wasted all that time and money the other gypsy company clear. They kept pointing the finger at me saying it was me. Big life lesson learned...

Thank you so much for your help with everything. You just got a life long customer.

Posted below are pictures after spraying, and after 5 hours.
 

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Used the Production clear, with slow activator. Can't wait to shoot some real work tomorrow instead of test panels.

Also thank you for helping me and recommending the SPI. Funny how you had same problem and its "our fault". We make the switch and all issues gone o_O
 
Yea I'm sure the SPI will work fine. I'll upload some pics tomorrow when I get a chance to shoot it.
Barry,

Received the SPI clear today and it worked beautifully. I am beyond happy. Everything from the custom SPI shipping boxes, well packaged cans inside the shipping box, nice product manual. Everything felt "premium".

I mixed up some clear with the slow hardener, applied two wet coats with a 20 min flash time. Cured perfect, looks EXACTLY how after I sprayed it.

100% difference compared to that other crap I was using.

No issues whatsoever with the turbine system. I sprayed at 9.5 PSI with .8mm tip and it laid out like a sheet of glass.

I am kicking myself for not using your product first, I cannot believe I wasted all that time and money the other gypsy company clear. They kept pointing the finger at me saying it was me. Big life lesson learned...

Thank you so much for your help with everything. You just got a life long customer.

Posted below are pictures after spraying, and after 5 hours.

Well, I'm glad it worked out but to be honest with you I have been through this so many times in last 40 years I really expected it not to be perfect the first time and to require some tweaking.
For the rest of you that want to try this type of spray system remember it is all solvent speed adjustments.
By the way, the reason the PPG 2000 clear worked is their "tail solvent mixture" looks to be very close and almost exact as 2100, so will give them credit where credit is due, they spent the money to formulate a very good product.
 
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Good choice, I'm glad you liked it and it worked. The Production clear is some really nice clear that does get harder then the Universal clear (buy design and/or chemical make-up). I would be questioning the base (if by the same supplier) if their clear is misbehaving I wonder if their base and other material is also sub-par. Time will surely tell but it didn't take long for the clear to show issues.
 
Any updates? Were you able to speed it up so you could have a speed clear?
 
Yes using the production clear flawlessly with slow activator. Love it so far.

Haven't tried the polar activator yet. Afraid to break something that is working good.

It's working exactly the way it's suppose to.

This may sound dumb but it says in directions never bake over 120 F. I let the clear air-dry for 4 hours at 70F. If it let it sit outside for few hours it becomes rock hard which is what I want...Any reason I shouldn't leave painted parts outside to "post cure" after initial 4 hour cure inside. In direct sunlight I get panel temps of 150F
 
I will mix some polar accelerator today and do a test panel see what happens.

On a side note, this turbine system is phenomenal. I painted a set of these parts in pic below. I sprayed 2 coats basecoat at 5.5 psi and 2 coats at 9.0 psi. I used exactly 74 grams total basecoat. Which is equal to exactly 2oz. So 1 oz basecoat 1oz slow reducer.

Clear I put two heavy coats on. Used 120 total grams of clear which is 3 ounces.
 
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Yeah the accelerator is what I was curious about. Any normal drying clear should look pretty flawless once dry. Speeding them up is usually what can cause problems.
 
You have to ask Barry about that one. He is the "chemist" for the company lol
 
Did the following test with the polar accelerator, hopefully this helps anyone reading who wants to use it:

Mixed a batch of 100 grams of clear. My math shows that based on 1-2 oz accelerator for quart (as Barry mentioned earlier) translates to ( Clearcoat x .0609 = Polar Accelerator Amount ) for 2 oz ratio. ( Clearcoat x .0304 = Polar Accelerator ) for 1 oz ratio.

Mixed 100 Grams Clear, 26 Grams Activator, 6 Grams Polar = Results came out good, No Issues
Mixed 100 Grams Clear, 26 Grams Activator, 3 Grams Polar = Results came out good, No Issues.

I'm going to keep shooting using the Slow without accelerator. My booth is pretty clean and dirt is a non issue. Since I only paint smaller items, I have plastic bins that I put over the parts as a dust shield to prevent any dust from settling on them between flash times. Works well.

I'm curious to see if I get any solvent pop tomorrow, I will let you know, so far so good.

I tried using the FAST ACTIVATOR also just as a test, no accelerator. Got major solvent entrapment bubbles. The Clear did not dieback, it kept its gloss, but just bubbles trapped.

Attached is picture of the actual solvent pop. You can actually see the holes where it popped through.

Also attached is picture of the 2oz. I don't see any issues at all with it. Kept its gloss, no solvent pops or bubbles.

I'm been experimenting with tip sizes and PSI pressures to get factory orange peel matched. These were shot at 6.5-7 PSI range. When I shoot at 9.5PSI it comes out too smooth.
 

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I love the testing. That is the only way to get perfection, as every painter paints different and every shop has different conditions.
Trick is keep pushing product to its limits so you know exactly what it can and won't do.
Once you find your sweet spot your work will be flawless.
 
Also i said accelerator in case you needed to ship faster, sounds like you don't need it now so save for cold days.
After 4 hours safe for sun.
 
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