Metal Working tips and tricks.

Maybe somebody should do a how-to with gas welding in this thread.. This is something I have not done but do have some interest.. It is also popular with sheet aluminum.
 
Outlaw said:
Chad, personally, I think anything you have to offer will be a benefit. Your quality of work and knowledge is invaluable. I really like the idea of being able to weld sheet metal without a backing plate. Not an option for me with Mig. I can do it, but end up with those burn thrus you have to fuss with until they are closed and god only knows what the back of those welds looks like? I have to get more confidence in fitting my patch panels. The big window conversion came out awesome and anywhere I had more that .023, the Mig does pretty well closing the gap as long as I can get a heat sync behind it. I would really like more on the Tig welding too.
Thanks.. I appreciate it.

I have been working on this suspension build over the weekend, I'm trying to decide if I want to try to put something together with this or not.. It's almost to complicated to do a how-to on. And can vary from one vehicle application to the next.. And since this is a Air Ride suspension I am building, I don't see many in here putting it to use.
 
I thnik if you google Jim Spradley or Cut Like Plasma on you tube, there are some videos of the henrob. He also has a tutorial on those 56 Ford Fenders he widened, but I cant remember if its a photo series or a video shoot. I do know he sells a special tip he had made just for sheet metal.
 
Saw something interesting on how its made dream cars. On a Bentley Mulsaine or something like that, the factory mig welded a seam , then ground it down.
​However, they had a big ass chunk of steel with a slot in the middle to clamp around it for support & a heat sink.
 
steel vs copper for heat sink? I went to Home Depot and pickud up a 2 foot piece of 1", 3/4", and 1/2" thick wall copper pipe. Took them home and cut 6" off each section for a round shaped heat sink for backing curves. Flattened the rest in the vice followed by hammering on welding table to get a long section of fairly thick copper. Cut that to lengths as needed. Works awesome for head shrink.
 
Where are you using a heat sink? I typically don't like to force any area to cool faster than the other as it may cause more warpage, or make it harder to plannish out. I also typically don't like to use it as a backer for filling a hole, if anything is that large I make a patch piece. I have been slacking in here but I have been pretty buried.
 
I use a copper heat sink behind butt joints or small holes (too small to make patches) Im welding shut. I run my welds a little on the hot side so I get good penetration. I can get a better weld with less burn thru running with the recommended welder settings, but better penetratiion and more burn thru when I run a little hot. By using a copper heat sink behind the weld, I avoid the burn thru with the hotter settings. This is with my MIG. Have not made the leap to TIG yet.


I never looked at using a heat sink as cooling the weld, but rather preventing burn thru.
 
Something I keep forgetting about mentioning for discussion is coating metal parts with dychem (blue stuff] which will highlight low spots , pinholes & defects when sanding.
.Haven't used this stuff in forever.
 
I use 3m dry guide coat, shows up well for finding highs and lows, plus easier to clean up
 
Hey Chad, I come to class every morning but your not there. Did you take a leave of abscence? Grateful for the information you share and hungry for more, but also understand its a big committment to take time out of your schedule to pass your knowledge on to us.
 
I use thin copper to back up butt seams where ever possible. Not as a heat sink or for a burn through, the benefit is that it back gases the weld and keeps it from oxidizing. Some people call it sugaring. I use TIG with the copper back up and the back side looks almost as good as the side I weld from.
 
Cool, Just another benefit of using backing plates where you can. They have saved my bacon on several occassions.
 
metalman;n81871 said:
I use thin copper to back up butt seams where ever possible. Not as a heat sink or for a burn through, the benefit is that it back gases the weld and keeps it from oxidizing. Some people call it sugaring. I use TIG with the copper back up and the back side looks almost as good as the side I weld from.

I thought "sugaring" only happened with stainless. Mild steel doesn't need back gassing. Backup plates are a crutch, really like Chad says it makes a weld harder to planish and it actually causes more warpage. If you are having issues when butt welding work on getting a tighter panel fit. Good tight fits generally solve burn through issues. If you are burning through on a plug weld you are doing something wrong. Usually too high a heat setting.
 
Chris_Hamilton;n81876 said:
I thought "sugaring" only happened with stainless. Mild steel doesn't need back gassing. Backup plates are a crutch, really like Chad says it makes a weld harder to planish and it actually causes more warpage. If you are having issues when butt welding work on getting a tighter panel fit. Good tight fits generally solve burn through issues. If you are burning through on a plug weld you are doing something wrong. Usually too high a heat setting.


Exacly.. No reason to use a backing plate.
 
Well, finally got my miller syncro 200 home from the day job's shop & plugged in to my new 60 amp line I just ran so I can get to work. I mentioned before I got pretty decent at aluminum pretty quick as well as stainless , but not that good with 20 ga steel. So I started practicing a little. Seem to have a harder time seeing the fit line & puddle with steel. Think it's an eyesight issue. More lighting close by helped a good bit . second small sample was at least 50% better than first. Will try cheater glasses next , some smaller wire, & maybe some different lighting, should be good enough soon. Guess I could draw 2 white chauk lines, but that sounds like a crutch. Might also try a few mig sample runs for a few areas hard to work with a tig on the vehicle.

​BUT, even though my first tig sample in over a year is ugly by professional standards, many amateur mig users probably wish they could get that amount of penetration without burning through & sand down to almost undetectable. That's the beauty of a good tig machine.

Do want one suggestion here. May be doing several welded areas off & on between the day job schedule before setting up to spray epoxy. Need something for temporary rust protection. Maybe just spray a little rattle can self etching primer & sand & wirebrush it off later?

​PS, Outlaw, may want to try adjusting your mig angle or holdout a little further away with the mig as another fine tuning method. May also try a rotary wire brush in a drill just before & during welding. Steel does not get the sugar thing on the backside of welds, but it does oxidize a little, especially after heat.
 
jlcustomz said:
Well, finally got my miller syncro 200 home from the day job's shop & plugged in to my new 60 amp line I just ran so I can get to work. I mentioned before I got pretty decent at aluminum pretty quick as well as stainless , but not that good with 20 ga steel. So I started practicing a little. Seem to have a harder time seeing the fit line & puddle with steel. Think it's an eyesight issue. More lighting close by helped a good bit . second small sample was at least 50% better than first. Will try cheater glasses next , some smaller wire, & maybe some different lighting, should be good enough soon. Guess I could draw 2 white chauk lines, but that sounds like a crutch. Might also try a few mig sample runs for a few areas hard to work with a tig on the vehicle.

​BUT, even though my first tig sample in over a year is ugly by professional standards, many amateur mig users probably wish they could get that amount of penetration without burning through & sand down to almost undetectable. That's the beauty of a good tig machine.

Do want one suggestion here. May be doing several welded areas off & on between the day job schedule before setting up to spray epoxy. Need something for temporary rust protection. Maybe just spray a little rattle can self etching primer & sand & wirebrush it off later?

​PS, Outlaw, may want to try adjusting your mig angle or holdout a little further away with the mig as another fine tuning method. May also try a rotary wire brush in a drill just before & during welding. Steel does not get the sugar thing on the backside of welds, but it does oxidize a little, especially after heat.
funny how this works, I picked up on tig welding steel really quick, but I have been a slow learner when it comes to aluminum.

Also I have had bare metal panels in my shop for over a year without any sight of rust, I wouldn't put anything on it. However I do have decent climate control in my shop.
 
Was reading through this thread and noticed the discussions on Henrobs and gas welding versus tig. My Dad used to do a lot of hammer welding with a conventional torch. I can remember him taking 2 fenders and making one many times. This was mostly on 50's and 60's model stuff. 57 T-Birds stick out in my mind especially (keep in mind I was 4 or 5 at the time in the '70's). He would section the two, loosely bolt them on the car and join them roughly in the middle of the wheel arch. He would use filler rod and then work a spot cherry red with the torch and hammer and dolly away. Repeating until the entire seam was done. 9' monster body grinder lightly over the seam and most of the time (from what he told me) no filler (lead or body filler). Sometimes he would lead it but never very much. Pretty much a lost art nowadays. Don't really hear of many guys hammerwelding a seam anymore, but from what he told me all the guys in California in the 50's did their sheet metal welding that way. Barris, Winfield all the "LeadSled" type of guys.
 
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