Metal Working tips and tricks.

Would be really helpful to do a sample weld on a large enough scrap part to simulate what doing the real part will go like. Sample welding on small coupon parts will give you some of the feel needed, but practicing on a full size part will be more realistic.
Heat up & heat soak are different between small & bigger parts. This is 10 times as true if you ever try sheet aluminum welding with a torch.

Just a thought;;;;;;
 
so assuming you have a long weld and an almost perfect fitment between panels. Lets go with Mig since thats what I have until I get a Tig. I clamp and spot weld the middle and outsides. I planish those welds after cool and come back and weld in between the first welds, cool and planish. I keep doing this until the seam is continious welded. My question is: At some point in time if the fittment is butted together (no gap), will the metal start getting tighter and tighter? Will it get tight enough to warp the butt joint or cause the joint to overlap?
 
Outlaw said:
so assuming you have a long weld and an almost perfect fitment between panels. Lets go with Mig since thats what I have until I get a Tig. I clamp and spot weld the middle and outsides. I planish those welds after cool and come back and weld in between the first welds, cool and planish. I keep doing this until the seam is continious welded. My question is: At some point in time if the fittment is butted together (no gap), will the metal start getting tighter and tighter? Will it get tight enough to warp the butt joint or cause the joint to overlap?
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Mig is fine, as long as you weld well, grind the excess (and NO more) before hammering, and you turn up the energy input and spend less time on the trigger.

To answer your question, yes it will. Grind then stretch your weld until it returns to the original state. That way you wont lose control of your process. Go as far as you feel comfortable. Some welds will require more planishing than others because of differences in gap, internal stresses, and the inconsistencies of the human element, the weldor.
 
No kidding, been one of the better threads regarding welding sheet metal. I honestly got the Mig down pretty well with using a backing strip and .023 to closed gap, .023 wire and a copper plate. I really want to try the tig but I know I wont be able to always get to the .023 to closed gap and have access to place a copper backing strip. Cab corners is the next big project and getting a good fitment and access to backing plate is much harder than some other patch panels I have done.
 
Getting a closed cap is fairly simple, I never use anything on the back with a Tig welder. Just get a nice fit and weld.. I have been wanting to show another few pics on tig welding on a current project but I forgot my camera at home.. I will get to it soon. We have been busy finishing up a LeMans for a show in Detroit and also now working on a Impala, but no real fab work at the moment. It's all sanding/buffing, there is enough info on this site for that.. But I noticed it was lacking in Metal..

Anybody have any desire to a basic suspension how to? It may be lacking in info because it can be a deep subject, But I can post pics and if you have questions I'll do my best to answer.. I can add it in here on another project we are starting on tomorrow. Hopefully make some good progress in the next few weeks.
 
Chad, personally, I think anything you have to offer will be a benefit. Your quality of work and knowledge is invaluable. I really like the idea of being able to weld sheet metal without a backing plate. Not an option for me with Mig. I can do it, but end up with those burn thrus you have to fuss with until they are closed and god only knows what the back of those welds looks like? I have to get more confidence in fitting my patch panels. The big window conversion came out awesome and anywhere I had more that .023, the Mig does pretty well closing the gap as long as I can get a heat sync behind it. I would really like more on the Tig welding too.
 
Mig can be done successfully with a closed gap, I do it often, trick is go in hot, but VERY little trigger time. I always grind the backside of any weld I do, and if you can get a dolly in there, you can get a grinder in there. Otherwise, its a moot point.

Why do I use a mig rather than a TIG sometimes? Why sometimes we are out of argon, someone else is using the TIG or the MIG is just closer to me. Same reasons why I chose the torches over TIG, more often than not, depends on whats within reach :)
 
Marty, I own a Henrob torch. I love the tiny hot flame and I can stitch two pieces of sheet metal together with no filler rod. What I cant do is control the heat. So when you say torches over tig, you blow me away. Me and torches equal major warpage.
 
You are absolutely correct, torches warp like mad, no matter what you do. The equation that equals distortion is a major resultant of time. From least time to most, MIG, TIG, then gas, and you will notice the same holds true for warping, least with MIG, more with TIG, and most with gas. The big trick is that the gas welds are the most relaxed, and not terribly hard to planish out. That is there the practice part of the equation comes into play, all with a hammer and dolly, slapper, flipper, leaf spring, file, whatever you prefer to get the job done.

With gas you control heat with more speed, and by adding filler rod, more added mass helps soak up some of the energy input. Go like mad and add a little!
 
I wished I would have learned this when I was younger. I can do lots of things well. My mig welding has come a long ways in five years. Torch has been in and out but never mastered. Im going to try Tig based on Chads tutorial here. I will try the henrob again with your advise and see how it goes, but I think the speed part will be a challenge for me. Im pretty stoked on the new Lincoln Square Wave 200. They are still on back order but should be available in February.
 
The guy I see at Daytona every year selling the Henrobs displays an older truck fender welded up that is likely an 18 gauge as opposed to the 20 gauge of later older vehicles. I learned welding on a traditional torch as a kid & found the henrob easy for 18 gauge steel, so it may work for your 50's stuff.. As mentioned , the softer & less likely to crack welds are a positive thing to planish.
​For thicker sheet metal , the biggest difference you'll see between precision torch & tig is the usefulness of the [gas pedal] control. If you are intent on getting a tig, practicing with a Henrob will make the tig learning process that much easier. The hardest part of learning curve for a tig then will be holding the tip close enough without touching it, which may make it actually stick & will contaminate it, requiring stopping & regrinding it or better yet, swapping another preground ready to go rod & redressing the bad ones later.
 
Does anyone ever weld using the connect the dots mig method with a precision torch like the henrob? The guy welding at Daytone, Jim Spradley?
 
Outlaw said:
Does anyone ever weld using the connect the dots mig method with a precision torch like the henrob? The guy welding at Daytone, Jim Spradley?
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Think that's who it is. Best I remember his truck fender weld looked continuous like a tig weld.
 
jlcustomz said:
The guy I see at Daytona every year selling the Henrobs displays an older truck fender welded up that is likely an 18 gauge as opposed to the 20 gauge of later older vehicles. I learned welding on a traditional torch as a kid & found the henrob easy for 18 gauge steel, so it may work for your 50's stuff.. As mentioned , the softer & less likely to crack welds are a positive thing to planish.
​For thicker sheet metal , the biggest difference you'll see between precision torch & tig is the usefulness of the [gas pedal] control. If you are intent on getting a tig, practicing with a Henrob will make the tig learning process that much easier. The hardest part of learning curve for a tig then will be holding the tip close enough without touching it, which may make it actually stick & will contaminate it, requiring stopping & regrinding it or better yet, swapping another preground ready to go rod & redressing the bad ones later.
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If thats Henrob Jim you are talking about, I helped him on those fenders back in 2002 or something, and the fenders measured 19 ga, and that exactly what we put back in as replacement pieces to widen them
 
jlcustomz said:
The guy I see at Daytona every year selling the Henrobs displays an older truck fender welded up that is likely an 18 gauge as opposed to the 20 gauge of later older vehicles. I learned welding on a traditional torch as a kid & found the henrob easy for 18 gauge steel, so it may work for your 50's stuff.. As mentioned , the softer & less likely to crack welds are a positive thing to planish.
​For thicker sheet metal , the biggest difference you'll see between precision torch & tig is the usefulness of the [gas pedal] control. If you are intent on getting a tig, practicing with a Henrob will make the tig learning process that much easier. The hardest part of learning curve for a tig then will be holding the tip close enough without touching it, which may make it actually stick & will contaminate it, requiring stopping & regrinding it or better yet, swapping another preground ready to go rod & redressing the bad ones later.
Click to expand...
Small world.
 
jlcustomz said:
The guy I see at Daytona every year selling the Henrobs displays an older truck fender welded up that is likely an 18 gauge as opposed to the 20 gauge of later older vehicles. I learned welding on a traditional torch as a kid & found the henrob easy for 18 gauge steel, so it may work for your 50's stuff.. As mentioned , the softer & less likely to crack welds are a positive thing to planish.
​For thicker sheet metal , the biggest difference you'll see between precision torch & tig is the usefulness of the [gas pedal] control. If you are intent on getting a tig, practicing with a Henrob will make the tig learning process that much easier. The hardest part of learning curve for a tig then will be holding the tip close enough without touching it, which may make it actually stick & will contaminate it, requiring stopping & regrinding it or better yet, swapping another preground ready to go rod & redressing the bad ones later.
Click to expand...
Small world.
 
Marty Comstock said:
Mig can be done successfully with a closed gap, I do it often, trick is go in hot, but VERY little trigger time. I always grind the backside of any weld I do, and if you can get a dolly in there, you can get a grinder in there. Otherwise, its a moot point.

Why do I use a mig rather than a TIG sometimes? Why sometimes we are out of argon, someone else is using the TIG or the MIG is just closer to me. Same reasons why I chose the torches over TIG, more often than not, depends on whats within reach :)
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I got a back up tank for the tig.. It's a little tiny thing but it gets me through when the big one goes out.. I panic if anything happens to the tig welder anymore.. Funny because at one time I thought it would be a piece of equipment I would never need.
 
Outlaw said:
I wished I would have learned this when I was younger. I can do lots of things well. My mig welding has come a long ways in five years. Torch has been in and out but never mastered. Im going to try Tig based on Chads tutorial here. I will try the henrob again with your advise and see how it goes, but I think the speed part will be a challenge for me. Im pretty stoked on the new Lincoln Square Wave 200. They are still on back order but should be available in February.
Click to expand...
I was wondering what you were going to decide on.
 
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