Matte Black for the '58 Apache project?

Dean Jenkins

Dean Jenkins

Promoted Users
I posted on another thread about the '58 Apache that is my next project. I mentioned SPI Red as the color. That is actually my fall back color. What I REALLY want is to do it in Matte Black. Like this:

hot rod black 58 truck.png


I LOVE that look!

But, I've nearly talked myself out of it after reading so many threads here and other places about the issues with a Matte paint job.

Working against me:
  1. Home shop makeshift booth - I will always get some degree of trash. I can minimize but not eliminate.
  2. I've only painted a few cars, with lot's of time between them. My spray technique is OK, but not perfect.
  3. Due to space and other constraints, I will be panel painting, probably over a period of at least a few months
I have read a lot and watched a lot of videos. If I were to attempt this, I would NOT try a single stage approach.

I would use SPI black base and then Euro clear with the matting agent. I would use black epoxy and black 2K, so any chips would be less likely to show up.

I have read that some minor correction can be done with flattened clear using steel wool or Trizact 3000/5000/8000 to get any trash out and to closely match the matte finish.

Working for me is my nearly unlimited willingness to do it over until it is good.
And, I have the equipment and patience to make exact formula mixes and gun settings, and to repeat them.

Thoughts from the experienced guys? Backyard hacks included!
 
Dean Jenkins said:
I have read that some minor correction can be done with flattened clear using steel wool or Trizact 3000/5000/8000 to get any trash out and to closely match the matte finish.
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That sounds optimistic IMO. My experience is how it comes out of the gun is how it's going to look. Any attempt at "repair" like you described stands out to one degree or another. Ain't no way that either things described will let you do a repair and it blend with the rest. Just not possible from my experience.

One thing to keep in mind is this. You can't paint it in pieces and expect it to match. It won't. If you do it you got to do it all in one go. And that means assembled. You could have the bed off, but you want to do it all at once. Otherwise it will be off to one degree or another. Jim C could probably explain why better, just know that painting it in pieces will result in everything being slightly different in gloss. 2 or 3 steps in each direction.
 
texasking said:
IMO, spraying it red would be much easier. The problem with flat, separate panels, is gloss levels. No matter how hard you try, they won't match perfect when assembled.
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Flat, matte is easier to screw up than gloss. With a gloss finish you have a chance to correct a mistake. Flat, matte respray and hope for better. It's a hassle easy to avoid and I think that is why you asked.
 
What I love about matte black is you don't have to worry about urethane wave or blocking and buffing everything out just so. Sure you have to live with whatever lands in it, which probably means a lot more attention to the spray environment, but even dirt specks don't seem to stand out that much with that kind of finish, maybe because they don't catch light like glossy defects do. I've done a few at my shop, mostly as kind of rescue jobs where I agree to paint over questionable work with no warranty. The results have always exceeded expectations.
 
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I built and painted this a few years back. Painted it with single stage in my garage. Cleaned out garage really good and surprisingly came out very clean.my concerns were the same as yours . I also painted it in pieces and everything matched great as far as sheen went. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again - this is the paint I used- actually read about it on this sight and gave it a try- very user friendly - just have to make sure every part gets the same amount of coats cause that will change the sheen
 

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Forgot to mention - if you screw up a part- like I did on a fender- the whole part gets primer and start over . Can’t just put another coat on and touch it up cause the sheen won’t match the rest of the car
 
My procedure for the "Satin Black Rescue Complete" is to have the body sanded in 320 which is smoothed out with red pads, 1 coat of black epoxy reduced 25% before going home, then next morning nib trash, then 2 coats of SPI Matte Black with Slow or Extra Slow activator (never Fast) exactly 30 minutes apart.

The epoxy seems to hold down questionable stuff really well, and prevents any interaction with the various substrates.
 
Chad.S said:
We use the xl satin clear since spi quit making theirs.
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Well, SPI does have SS Hot Rod black now. And flattening agent for clear. @crashtech and @Dave C 5 have me thinking maybe I can do this. It really is a look I like for this truck.
@Chris_Hamilton mentioned gloss black SS, but I've seen other trucks like this, in that finish and didn't like it. Looks good on an angular car like the el Camino, but seems like the curves of this truck get lost a bit.
 
Just don't do matte clear then drop it off at LineX for bedliner, stress to them that they *cannot* have any overspray because it's matte and unrepairable, then have to redo it all so the sheen matches all over after they didn't mask it well enough. If trying to get an even sheen with no trash is stressful once, its even worse doing it twice.

I've done a few all overs with Universal flattened between 7% and 25% and had very good results, but I always sprayed all at once with slow activator. The 25% one was on a heavily patina'd truck so we didn't care much about upkeep or if it glossed up from washing/wiping, and the 7% jobs were glossy enough to not worry about that issue. Matte black is going to be a pain to maintain IMO, I'd go with 7-10% flattener in Universal over a lower gloss finish.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
That sounds optimistic IMO. My experience is how it comes out of the gun is how it's going to look. Any attempt at "repair" like you described stands out to one degree or another. Ain't no way that either things described will let you do a repair and it blend with the rest. Just not possible from my experience.

One thing to keep in mind is this. You can't paint it in pieces and expect it to match. It won't. If you do it you got to do it all in one go. And that means assembled. You could have the bed off, but you want to do it all at once. Otherwise it will be off to one degree or another. Jim C could probably explain why better, just know that painting it in pieces will result in everything being slightly different in gloss. 2 or 3 steps in each direction.
Click to expand...

I was able to do a couple of small clearcoat blend repairs on flattened clear once, the guy I painted a Jeep for got in a hurry and tried to assemble it with no help and chipped/cracked the front edges of the hood, and his mechanic scratched a spot.

Need Help! Spot Repair/Blending Flattened Clear- PPG 2021 with Flattening Agent. - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Need Help! Spot Repair/Blending Flattened Clear- PPG 2021 with Flattening Agent. Paint & Bodywork
67-72chevytrucks.com
 
I didn’t think upkeep was that big of a deal. Truck stayed in the garage and I didn’t drive it in the rain- I used chemical guys detailer for Matt finishes. It does a good job - just make sure it’s a good microfiber towel cause any scratches will show- even from a towel
IMG_4497.png
 
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