Major oilcan GM A body firewall

Klleetrucking

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First off, my metal skills are meager at best.
I'm in the process of fitting in a Vintage Air system and have gotten everything dry fitted.

I didn't care for the flange around the factory hole. I cut reliefs in each corner and hammer/dollied the flange flat. Then fit the V.A. plate once again and plug welded it in.

I now have a major oilcan in the big red circle.
In the smaller circle is a slight crease that appears to be factory from when Fischer assembled the body. You can see the depression is 5/16"+.
1. Is the low area where the metal decided to go when I flattened the flange?
2. What does one do now?
 
I’m not a metal shaping wizard like some others on here but I’d probably try a shrinking disc to tighten it up.

Hopefully one of the experts will chime in.

Don
 
One first must determine the cause of the oil can to address it correctly. It is either shrinkage from welding, which would require stretching the weld, or it is excessive sheet metal that used to be taken up by the folds, that now isn't, which would require shrinking the newly flattened areas.

1. How much welding was done around the perimeter of the plate, if only plug welds, how many?
2. How much welding done in the corners where your relief cuts were?
3. Did any oil canning present itself before folding the flanges flat?
 
I thought oil canning was when the metal pops back and forth and sounds like an old style oiling can bottom that pumps when you push it. 5/16 sounds like a dent. We had this on a mangled fender once, I cut out the whole area, pounded it flat from behind on a welding table, then welded the same part back in.
 
OK, I'll try my best.
Robert first, #1 There are 12 evenly spaced 5/32"plug welds around the perimeter of the plate which was clamped to the firewall with long vise grips for welding the plugs. I was very careful with the heat.

#2 Relief cuts were about a 1/4" deep in just the corners so just a tack to fill them in.

#3 Sadly, I can't say if the oil canning was present before the welding. But, the slight crease was there from the beginning and a low area that I made worse.

anotheridiot, Yes it is oil canning. It takes a bit of effort but it will pop in and out. There is kind of a dent (crease) originating from the lower corner where the main firewall is spot welded to the left fresh air "box", Most of this area in question was covered by the OE heater/ac box.

It seems as the body was being assembled on the jig some "adjustments" were made during the fit up.
FWIW, the car was damaged in the right front fender prior to me owning it. I don't think it was bad enough to bend the firewall.
At least the fender mounting points don't appear to be pushed out of shape.
For lack of a better description, the area to the left (pass. side) of the old opening seems to be under a good amount of tension (pressure) sideways and can't relax.
I've considered a 1/32" slice along the area of the spot welds in an effort to give the metal somewhere to go.

Don, I've never used a shrinking disc and feel it's beyond my capabilities.


Thanks everyone, I'm honored that you took the time to try to help. K.Lee
 
I thought oil canning was when the metal pops back and forth and sounds like an old style oiling can bottom that pumps when you push it. 5/16 sounds like a dent. We had this on a mangled fender once, I cut out the whole area, pounded it flat from behind on a welding table, then welded the same part back in.
If it were pushed from the inside it would indeed push outward. That's the difference between a loose and tight oil can.
 
My responses in blue
OK, I'll try my best.
Robert first, #1 There are 12 evenly spaced 5/32"plug welds around the perimeter of the plate which was clamped to the firewall with long vise grips for welding the plugs. I was very careful with the heat.
Heat from welding will result in the weld and HAZ area to shrink as it cools. Whether you are using sheet metal or 1" thick plate steel, it shrinks. If this were caused by weld shrinkage, which makes sense, then simply planishing each plug weld with a hammer and dolly should stretch them back out and lessen the "dent" as those welds shrink they will gather surrounding metal along for the ride.
#2 Relief cuts were about a 1/4" deep in just the corners so just a tack to fill them in.
Again, more shrinking. I was thinking perhaps the unfolding of the sheet metal had caused some distortion, and that is still a possibility. The defect is quite a ways apart from the welds, but if there was a slight low there to start with, the weld shrinkage would easily add to the issue.
#3 Sadly, I can't say if the oil canning was present before the welding. But, the slight crease was there from the beginning and a low area that I made worse.
This is a good learning moment, my suggestion is to fix any defects prior to welding in a patch, whether that be a fender, firewall, or whatever. It's difficult enough as is to keep distortion at bay while welding. Try to eliminate any other defects before welding so they don't add to the problem/confusion
anotheridiot, Yes it is oil canning. It takes a bit of effort but it will pop in and out. There is kind of a dent (crease) originating from the lower corner where the main firewall is spot welded to the left fresh air "box", Most of this area in question was covered by the OE heater/ac box.

It seems as the body was being assembled on the jig some "adjustments" were made during the fit up.
FWIW, the car was damaged in the right front fender prior to me owning it. I don't think it was bad enough to bend the firewall.
At least the fender mounting points don't appear to be pushed out of shape.
For lack of a better description, the area to the left (pass. side) of the old opening seems to be under a good amount of tension (pressure) sideways and can't relax.
I've considered a 1/32" slice along the area of the spot welds in an effort to give the metal somewhere to go.
I'm not a fan of implementing "fixes" to the results, I prefer to address the cause. So IF shrinking caused the issue, stretch the welds. If this defect pre-existed as excess metal (perhaps it was from the fender damage), then perhaps some shrinking of the "excess" metal is in order. At the end of the day, your vehicle, your choice on the repair. I would suggest fixing results and not causes doesn't help you to understand how these issues arise or promote logical, systematic methods to keep those issues in check.
Don, I've never used a shrinking disc and feel it's beyond my capabilities.


Thanks everyone, I'm honored that you took the time to try to help. K.Lee
Some research/homework for you:




…..please read each start to finish and in that order. Thanks!
 
Thanks Robert, I truly appreciate the time you took to respond. I consider you as one of the premier metal guys in the world, your work is clearly evident of your skills.
Do you ever sleep?

I'll read the suggested links later today, I've got a bunch of other stuff on the table today.

One thought,, cut the plug welds, remove the V.A. plate and start over?

BTW, I'm almost going to be sad to see the wagon finished. It's always a treat to see your updates. Your workmanship is impeccable.

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the kind words, but I fear you overestimate my abilities. :) For future work, the upcoming DIVCO milk truck will show some extensive dent repairs, so that may be some good entertainment. It had a barn blow down on top of it, but is virtually rust free, so well worth repairing.

If I were to have done this firewall mod, I would have likely cut a hole in the firewall to eliminate the flanges around the opening, providing the remaining hole is correctly sized to be filled by the VA plate in a butt weld fashion. Repairing any defects prior to welding, of course. ;) If the VA plate is thicker, then perhaps a home made design of the same thickness metal with some fancy schmancy bead detail around the perimeter to make it appear more like it came there from factory. I like changes in metalwork, but prefer subtle ones that lead to head scratches, keep people guessing whether it's factory or not.
 
Oilcan update.

I may have not done the repair in the proper manner but I did get the oilcan taken care of with the primitive tools I have.
I bolted a piece of 1/4 x 2 flat stock with three 12 x 24 screws on the inside to get it reasonably flat and stabile.
Then I snuck up on it through a series of AO heat and quenches and it tightened up little by little. I removed the flat stock and was amazed at how tight the metal became. I got it within 1/32", not great but much better than it was and no oilcan.
 
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