If someone has a reproduction hood.....

Chris_Hamilton said:
I'm at the point now where everything in the future I do for others will be time and materials. If I can't get work that way I'll go back to working for someone else. It's just not worth it otherwise.
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I've had this conversation with a local shop I get more of my parts from. He broke it down like this....when you go grocery shopping. U put stuff in the basket and take it to register. The person working the register has no idea what that basket is going to cost. They can glance and give an estimate but won't know until they sort it all out and give you a price. Almost always just pay it. Some people might take some stuff out lol. Working on a car is the same thing. On my old 61, I took the doors off, the driver door took all of 2 mins to knock the pins out and door came off. Passenger took 2 hours, had to drill a pin out and multiple trips to the tool box. ....that being said....per hour is the only way to do it. Or like you said. Estimate on the high end. It's kinda where I'm at now. Alot of people want me to work on their cars. I have a job. So I give them a price and if they don't like it, that's fine. I still have a job. But one day maybe I'll quit that job. Maybe.
 
I honestly try not to be a dick, but I've said to countless people when they question the cost of something.. "then why don't you just do it yourself if its that easy"

I deal with a lot of racecar guys, I've quoted jobs at like 10K for a complete only to get a reply "Are you insane, I am not paying 10K to paint a race car" and I just respond..."ya I think its crazy too, I wouldn't do that either!! But that's what it will cost for me to paint your car if you had me do it"

Also I am very upfront when I don't know how to do something, I explain to them that I have no problem attempting the job, but its going to take longer that it would for someone who is experienced in that area so they are more than welcome to take the job elsewhere.
 
I will only work for Time and Materials.
The truth is that we do much more than just spray paint on vehicles. Actually, spraying the paint is the part I enjoy doing.

The restoration shops in my area charge on average about $90 per hour. That is how I got my 1968 Plymouth GTX for such a low price. The owner had taken it to a restoration shop nearby, they disassembled the entire car, then hit him with their estimate. He was shocked at the cost and decided to take the car home - he got all the parts in boxes, realized he didn't have the ability to restore it, so put it up for sale.

Too often, you don't know what you are getting into when someone brings a car to you, that from 20 feet looks pretty decent. I have found cracked frames, rusted out floors, hack repairs, etc. Hence, Time and Materials is the best method for both you and the car owner. He gets an itemized bill listing the materials, labor and work performed each month. He pays the bill, you keep working or he pays the bill and takes his car to someone else.

Personally, I only work about 40-60 hours per month on people's cars since it was never my intention to be in business doing this. So the customers are told this up front and sign a contract before I start.

The first job I did, I quoted it at $4800 and charging $10 an hour for labor because I didn't feel that I had enough experience to charge more. On that first job I began keeping track of everything on a spreadsheet and that was when my eyes were opened. I had my estimated time to do a certain repair and then a column for my actual time. Nearly everything was in the red, sometimes under estimated by 6 - 10 hours.

After that job, I said no more estimates. I currently charge $35 per hour for my labor.
 
'68 Coronet R/T said:
I will only work for Time and Materials.
The truth is that we do much more than just spray paint on vehicles. Actually, spraying the paint is the part I enjoy doing.

The restoration shops in my area charge on average about $90 per hour. That is how I got my 1968 Plymouth GTX for such a low price. The owner had taken it to a restoration shop nearby, they disassembled the entire car, then hit him with their estimate. He was shocked at the cost and decided to take the car home - he got all the parts in boxes, realized he didn't have the ability to restore it, so put it up for sale.

Too often, you don't know what you are getting into when someone brings a car to you, that from 20 feet looks pretty decent. I have found cracked frames, rusted out floors, hack repairs, etc. Hence, Time and Materials is the best method for both you and the car owner. He gets an itemized bill listing the materials, labor and work performed each month. He pays the bill, you keep working or he pays the bill and takes his car to someone else.

Personally, I only work about 40-60 hours per month on people's cars since it was never my intention to be in business doing this. So the customers are told this up front and sign a contract before I start.

The first job I did, I quoted it at $4800 and charging $10 an hour for labor because I didn't feel that I had enough experience to charge more. On that first job I began keeping track of everything on a spreadsheet and that was when my eyes were opened. I had my estimated time to do a certain repair and then a column for my actual time. Nearly everything was in the red, sometimes under estimated by 6 - 10 hours.

After that job, I said no more estimates. I currently charge $35 per hour for my labor.
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Curious on the hours you put in that long bed c10. I keep track of my hours and money on a spreadsheet as well. My last build, a 61 bubble top, took me 641 hours, from towing it from Tulsa to my house, full build including glass , drive train paint body, assembly.
 
RosharonRooster said:
Maybe I'm used to being poor, I'd be happy charging 35 an hour, cash, to hack in my backyard. Tail light warranty.
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I get it. Trust me I used to alot of "free" work. Then every project I did got destroyed because hey it was free...you'll never get back your time. So if I'm gonna give you my time then you can pay me what it's worth. Customers will always make more money..I'll never be able to make more time. If I charge someone 12-15k to paint their car and they trash it at the track, they feel alittle bit of the same pain I do.
 
I charge on the low end and I only promise nice driver quality. The reason is that I don’t want any drama. This is my retirement gig. Guys appreciate the value I deliver and as a result I’ve not had to deal with any whiny pissy customers who nitpick the job. I have done multiple builds for several customers and I’ve got others who would like me to do more. I turn down work all the time.

As soon as you start charging $80-100 per hour you’ve committed to delivering perfection and all the stress that goes with it…

My two cents,
Don
 
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RosharonRooster said:
Curious on the hours you put in that long bed c10. I keep track of my hours and money on a spreadsheet as well. My last build, a 61 bubble top, took me 641 hours, from towing it from Tulsa to my house, full build including glass , drive train paint body, assembly.
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600.65 hours.
He is a good friend so he got the $20 an hour rate.
 
dhutton01 said:
I charge on the low end and I only promise nice driver quality. The reason is that I don’t want any drama. This is my retirement gig. Guys appreciate the value I deliver and as a result I’ve not had to deal with any whiny pissy customers who nitpick the job. I have done multiple builds for several customers and I’ve got others who would like me to do more. I turn down work all the time.

As soon as you start charging $80-100 per hour you’ve committed to delivering perfection and all the stress that goes with it…

My two cents,
Don
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I fully understand that. Honestly most of my jobs are in the $65/ range. I only crank it up for certain circumstances. 100% of the time though I am extremely fair with the customers and the hours involved.

I know I personally am done taking on work from people I don't already have a relationship with. I never intended this to be a "business" but over the last 15 years that's what its turned into. Once these last 2 cars are done I am going to be extremely selective on who I do business with.
 
The way I think about this stuff is it's taking you a lot longer to do it than a pro, so the hourly rate should reflect that. For instance, you're sanding the hood with a 5" electric sander which is reeeaeaaalllly slow. When I think about my own pricing, I don't want to penalize people for my own lack of efficient equipment or experience, so I just don't take jobs for pay. Because frankly, my time is worth a lot and I cannot paint your hood for an amount of money that would actually be worth it to me. Therefore, if I'm doing something for you it's because you're a good friend and I'm just going to do it to help you. But you're absolutely going to be helping me do it. What I get out of it is I get to keep all the leftover materials. I did a stint of painting golf cart bodies and it was not worth it.

This is how is how every conversation goes:
Them: "You painted that car yourself!?"
Me: "Yes."
Them: "Ermagerd! How much would it be to paint my ____________?"
Me: "Way too much. I really value my time."

I'm doing a complete frame off restoration of my grandpa's 70 F250 farm truck for my uncle, and he's paying for parts and materials but I'm not charging anything for time, which will be hundreds of hours.
 
Lizer said:
The way I think about this stuff is it's taking you a lot longer to do it than a pro, so the hourly rate should reflect that. For instance, you're sanding the hood with a 5" electric sander which is reeeaeaaalllly slow. When I think about my own pricing, I don't want to penalize people for my own lack of efficient equipment or experience, so I just don't take jobs for pay. Because frankly, my time is worth a lot and I cannot paint your hood for an amount of money that would actually be worth it to me. Therefore, if I'm doing something for you it's because you're a good friend and I'm just going to do it to help you. But you're absolutely going to be helping me do it. What I get out of it is I get to keep all the leftover materials. I did a stint of painting golf cart bodies and it was not worth it.

This is how is how every conversation goes:
Them: "You painted that car yourself!?"
Me: "Yes."
Them: "Ermagerd! How much would it be to paint my ____________?"
Me: "Way too much. I really value my time."

I'm doing a complete frame off restoration of my grandpa's 70 F250 farm truck for my uncle, and he's paying for parts and materials but I'm not charging anything for time, which will be hundreds of hours.
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Yes. Exactly which is why for the past 10yrs or so, I've just built my own cars and sold them for a profit. Takes more money up front but im on no ones time and it gets done when it gets done.
 
I built my own cars and friends cars for 10 years before I retired at 58. Then I started taking on some paying customers to give me some income in retirement. I’m not making a lot of money, but enough that I haven’t had to draw on my retirement savings for the past seven years.

Don
 
dhutton01 said:
I built my own cars and friends cars for 10 years before I retired at 58. Then I started taking on some paying customers to give me some income in retirement. I’m not making a lot of money, but enough that I haven’t had to draw on my retirement savings for the past seven years.

Don
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Kinda where I'm at Don. I can hang it up in approx 10yrs at age 52. Then a little to supplement. In the meantime that's 10 more years experience
 
I charge $60/hr + material . Use to quote a job but lost my butt too many times. I also have a minimum- won’t paint a car for less than $6,000 and that’s a scuff and shoot. I don’t think that’s high when you compare what we do to a plumber/ electrician or guy mowing a yard for $25/hour. As far as perfection goes - I tell them that level of perfection is based on hours - the more hours I spend the more perfect I can get it- so their budget determines that . They seem to understand that that - before I was giving them very nice drivers for 7-8 thousand and they nit picked everything expecting to get what they saw on TV
 
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