Hours for “perfection “

if you do not like seeing a lot of filler stay away from older hand built European cars. they had a white filler used in the old days that must have been shot with a mud hopper. entire body was covered in it .
 
Fit and finish on the old euro stuff varies. Astons were always finished very close. Porsches varied. Seen some old 356's with the stuff in them, and seen a couple of early 911's that were near perfect. Mercedes would metal finish everything so they were always free of it. Ferrari's used the stuff you mentioned Shine. I've heard it described as a polyester primer. I don't know. I do know that the stuff being restored like those Ferrari's and Maserati's are all finished to a much higher degree today than they were new.

Here's a video of one of the best in Europe.
https://vimeo.com/carrozzeriabrandoli

Some good pics in this article. Check out all the body bucks on the wall!
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/ar...cd04428a01b6c9ac7280feb&utm_source=newsletter
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
...Some good pics in this article. Check out all the body bucks on the wall!
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/ferrari-legends-dont-die-theyre-resurrected-brandolis-famous-workshop?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0932017 Brandoli EN&utm_content=0932017 Brandoli EN CID_7575a3566cd04428a01b6c9ac7280feb&utm_source=newsletter
Click to expand...
Love this quote from Roberto Brandolini:
Our philosophy is to save the parts that we think deserve to live on, and when possible, we suggest to owners to keep certain parts even if they aren’t perfect. Beauty resides in imperfection.
Click to expand...
 
A lot of really good advice in here. I've painted two cars for other people - a 97 Camaro and a 74 Firebird - and was lucky that both of those guys were very understanding and had reasonable expectations paying a college kid to paint their cars. My uncle restores pre-1967 VW's for a living and he once told me "you won't make d**k!". From a living standpoint, I didn't make anything but for a college kid it was a good chunk of money.

I would love to have unlimited resources to just restore cars, I would be happy as can be. I have plenty of people that would have me do side work for them even, but it's hard to find time for it at this point in my life. The hardest part for me is knowing the flaws in the work I do on someone else's car and the way my brain likes to remind me of it every now and then. But reading this makes me feel a little better, just knowing that the work I put out was really a bargain - good daily driver work.
 
I love topics like this as Im sure it helps some shops and hobbyists doing a lot of side work or their own work.
I talk to a lot of shops from production to restoration shops every day, and here are a few things I hear often.

You pick the type of restoration you want, and we can give you a very general idea of the hours we will have in the job plus parts and material will be added but hard to guess. 500 hours to 5,000 hours I have been told as general ranges.

Just want a beautiful paint job with outside stripped, beautiful but not going to be a show winner,
The average price I hear daily is $16,000 to 18,000.

Also, never let a customer tell you how to paint a job with rare exceptions, and as soon as he says I can get cheaper, say best of luck and walk away.
These are the people that, when you are done, will lie to you and bitch up a storm.
I am helping a shop now, not even our customer, but caught his customer changing his story 5, 6, or 7 times when I would say not chemically possible.
It would shock all of you how often, I get these calls, so never
Let someone tell you what to use and how to paint car, tell him to do it himself, you will be further ahead in the long run.
 
I think I have fallen out of love with this stuff. I have a few projects left but i think I'm done. I'm tired of people not valuing my time, telling me how they want shit done, stupid time frames(race car shit) and just flat expecting way more than what they are paying for.

Most of all, I'm tired of not saying no. I always go out of my way to make people happy and in the end I end up cutting my own throat. I'm a sucker for a good car story. "Man I've had this car for 30 years, i finally want it nice"

One of my customers has a bunch of painters for his everyday flipper cars. I paint his keepers, now he wont ever ask me to paint these beater cars which I totally appreciate but he will fill me in on the details. These guys will paint completes for like 1500 bucks. primed, body worked, half ass polished. Even then I don't know how the hell they do it. On completes, even with the SPI prices I will still have close to 2K in supplies alone.

As far as metal finishing, I personally don't have that talent. I have enough talent to get the panels really close, skim coat and move on. Metal finishing is an art form, and if you are doing it then you better be getting paid what you deserve. I work on classic drivers and race cars.

And to anyone reading this, the worst thing you want to do is fall in love with a drag car, lol. I've made that mistake too many times in my life! Its heartbreaking. These cars are so violent, they dont even have to crash them to screw them up.
 
orangejuiced86 said:
I think I have fallen out of love with this stuff. I have a few projects left but i think I'm done. I'm tired of people not valuing my time, telling me how they want shit done, stupid time frames(race car shit) and just flat expecting way more than what they are paying for.

Most of all, I'm tired of not saying no. I always go out of my way to make people happy and in the end I end up cutting my own throat. I'm a sucker for a good car story. "Man I've had this car for 30 years, i finally want it nice"

One of my customers has a bunch of painters for his everyday flipper cars. I paint his keepers, now he wont ever ask me to paint these beater cars which I totally appreciate but he will fill me in on the details. These guys will paint completes for like 1500 bucks. primed, body worked, half ass polished. Even then I don't know how the hell they do it. On completes, even with the SPI prices I will still have close to 2K in supplies alone.

As far as metal finishing, I personally don't have that talent. I have enough talent to get the panels really close, skim coat and move on. Metal finishing is an art form, and if you are doing it then you better be getting paid what you deserve. I work on classic drivers and race cars.

And to anyone reading this, the worst thing you want to do is fall in love with a drag car, lol. I've made that mistake too many times in my life! Its heartbreaking. These cars are so violent, they dont even have to crash them to screw them up.
Click to expand...

I am reaching this point myself. Never expected to be doing restoration work for other people to begin with.
It's not so much that my customers have been bad to me because they have not. It is more that I will be 65 in May and want to get back to my "hobby" which means working on my car.
It took me over 10 years to complete my '68 Coronet R/T and now my '68 GTX is sitting in epoxy primer while I work on a '97 Freightliner with a 2000 Dodge Dakota pickup waiting to be finished sitting in my yard. And I have a guy with a '68 Mustang, woman with a '68 Camaro, a guy with a '71 VW van, and two more people wanting to get in line.
It think it's time to "retire" from the automotive restoration side business. :)
 
Orange I hear you my friend. You and 68 are to be admired for having a full time job then busting your hump on this stuff. It's not easy. And 10000% percent I get what you are saying about not saying "NO". I'm exactly the same.
I have come to the realization that I have to get my customers from outside my area. If this wasn't "home" I'd leave for someplace else as the area I live in is really "the land that time forgot". :rolleyes: Little town close to me had over 2500 jobs when I graduated from High School in 1989. NAFTA passed and every one of those jobs are gone. It's the same in many small towns in North Carolina as well. It's really sad to see. Stuff like that is one reason why Trump is so popular around here. The economy here is so different than in places just an hour or two away. Raleigh NC is a different world compared to here.

So I've been racking my brain around how to get good customers and build a reputation outside the area I live in so that I can say no to those jobs that I should say no to. Like we have discussed in other threads the one way I see to do it is build something and show it. I think having a professional looking website is important. Facebook IDK as I've never really used it.
I think one way, that would be effective would be to frequent the Cars and Coffee meets that are popular in Northern VA and in Raleigh with what I've built. Talk to folks, give the ones I talk to a Tshirt or Ball Cap. I've also thought about contacting various Car Clubs in the Mid-Atlantic area.

Word of mouth is so important but how to get word of mouth going when it's outside of your area? Posting and being active on various forums seems like it would be somewhat effective. Least effective to me would be paid advertising unless it's very specialized. Old days, pre internet, Hemmings would have been effective but I have my doubts now. What do the rest of you think?
 
Last edited:
Chris,
Word of mouth will get you more business then you can handle. When people saw the '65 Buick Convertible I did for a business owner in Flagstaff that opened the floodgates.
Get a car done and take it to some car shows. Put your business placard out and have some business cards on hand. Best advertising you can get.
 
Word of mouth is the way to go IMO. Thats how all of my work has come over the years. I left social media a few years back, Facebook and Instagram both landed ZERO work. Just low ballers and tire kickers.

Saying no for me has always been hard because of 1 reason......... I'm an idiot! Someone calls me up with a rust repair job and Im like "Ya i dont do that"...Someone calls me up with a cobra clone that they already started the work on years ago and have a tight budget "Oh hell ya!!" then 2 months into it all I'm thinking is "NEVER AGAIN".......I have such a short term memory when it comes to classic/cool cars because im a car guy at heart.

I've always told myself that if my wife went back to work full time and I wanted to quit my job and do this full time at home that I could make it, but looking at it now I dont think I could make it.
 
I work full time as a Nurse at the VA ( 57 years old ) get home at 430, feed the dogs and out to the garage by 5 - quit at 730 . Every weekend is anywhere from 8-15 hours depending on what my wife has planned . We are both getting burned out on customers expecting a perfect car for 7-8 grand( average 175 hours) . don’t get me wrong- I REALLY try - I’m proud of my work! Most get trophies at local shows SO.... I’m raising my prices and if I don’t get any cars then fine - I just bought a bass boat and would rather fish - but if I do get what I’m worth then the bitching will be more tolerable - oh ... and all the friends and family members that need something done- for free of course- and thanks Barry for saying that $16000 is for average car - really opened my eyes
 
For years i would get excited about getting to the garage when I got home. Now I get home around 4, hit the couch for my 20 min rest time which turns into an hour of youtube videos and bsing with my kids(teenagers now) then I hit the garage, contemplate suicide once or twice(kidding) then finally get to work!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top